From lojban+bncCKatz7nFHBDUnvzfBBoELg3tQw@googlegroups.com Thu May 27 17:33:43 2010 Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1OHnW5-00069I-2F; Thu, 27 May 2010 17:33:42 -0700 Received: by gwaa12 with SMTP id a12sf505795gwa.16 for ; Thu, 27 May 2010 17:33:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:mime-version :received:received:date:in-reply-to:x-ip:references:user-agent :x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to:reply-to:precedence :mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=OCyg3lpV1caJ0jmlNblGZseFJhWD624E0cGpby9YlwM=; b=lfarzHf4SxSWPlBls0hFrgrJX3M7yAsXNyNjvpGj+6s+/DWdWhrybz3nGt3DH1DeZK emaiZVBomXDfhEjbRNSJyFpTfHW0oyaY9sVNFI/preUf/jCL7VFLmFbxvKvK2ZVn5cW6 q/b9NE/Cz6IUNx/z/XAC+s4TiEXO6ceBhG/+o= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:date:in-reply-to:x-ip:references :user-agent:x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=oq0jlqCp/csxBX4YqqkfVJYk1Ta1VF7vAqE6CDWGyS4BiUbCFgFrZyqSlygkTln3pU Nc99iyoNHeV5zDB6vp55i4n+MwE8BpJ/QIwsUvMlTltcxPxLC7D1xhdloiD0OpWYGsmG bsNkS7NPv0rxsNTxfTV0IpH5MCc0HbgSS69IE= Received: by 10.101.137.4 with SMTP id p4mr382956ann.28.1275006804290; Thu, 27 May 2010 17:33:24 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.101.11.8 with SMTP id o8ls521538ani.6.p; Thu, 27 May 2010 17:33:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.101.139.29 with SMTP id r29mr394493ann.10.1275006803640; Thu, 27 May 2010 17:33:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by a27g2000prj.googlegroups.com with HTTP; Thu, 27 May 2010 17:33:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 17:33:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-IP: 68.226.115.170 References: <4e37532f-631a-41f2-a341-2895efaea0b6@y18g2000prn.googlegroups.com> <201005252152.09599.phma@phma.optus.nu> User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_3; en-us) AppleWebKit/531.22.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Safari/531.22.7,gzip(gfe) Message-ID: Subject: [lojban] Re: fu'ivla's definition: loanword or morphological class From: symuyn To: lojban Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm completely fine with {zi'evla} replacing Lojban, and I'd be happy to see it replace {fu'ivla} in discourse on Lojban when warranted from now on. However, as long as we're making {fu'ivla} in Lojban refer to the general loanword, I kind of disagree on its continued usage in English for the morphological class. If we're going to use {zi'evla} in Lojban, let us use it in English too. Having "salsa" refer to something different than its native meaning is a *bad* thing when it comes to teaching and discussing Lojban in English. It only confuses newcomers when English discussion conflates the terms. I look down upon it in the same way as people using "cmene" to mean "words that end with a consonant-pause," rather than the correct "cmevla." When a newcomer asks, "What are the types of words in Lojban?" I'd like people to answer, "cmevla, gismu, lujvo, and zi'evla." When the CLL gets updated some day, I wish to see virtually all mentions of "cmene" replaced with "cmevla" and "fu'ivla" with {zi'evla}. That would have eliminated the confusion I had when I was first figuring out Lojban's morphology. It's not a matter of life or death, though. ;) On May 26, 12:38=A0pm, Daniel Brockman wrote: > I don't think this is really a problem. =A0In the absence of CAhA, we don= 't > have to interpret {gismu} as {ca'a gismu}; could also be {ka'e gismu}. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.