From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBD-mYjgBBoEvlXuxA@googlegroups.com Sun May 30 00:00:31 2010 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1OIcVW-0006ml-Ct; Sun, 30 May 2010 00:00:31 -0700 Received: by wyg36 with SMTP id 36sf931286wyg.16 for ; Sun, 30 May 2010 00:00:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=35HuJZ3QddphtnS/Jv3qABwhKYEMvZqjOTl4sQ9fGuc=; b=H+YkZ5pexE6PJYjcwbWj6v14Lu1qZUpAGvfUmXBEgU3mDAt3qTVfET368iQ3J1Qi/m a0WH1OaXujsf/hpsk6P53WaaExB9IX1DbBmx9OUkXWPK+v9SZpWISCbfp6I7BMDOfGCb 9NA2zYVrqNeTpC3zNkBFTXfzKfPTpwY6Xb7pQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=vXDZ+RFPcCZBJtqpwLUsQThJb0sOfNnpE2ZfdwQYENiSOWj2xnzKOww5Zu4BfUAOtn vQJN3fgUo2Nde94pXTTK4RaHhc2GExsRWrszydQDvLfhMVFi4vJsreD1wA6qB3hI0hdS 50VWPuTYi5WCI8gy8Vk4XwUcgn4J7GBwpwnF0= Received: by 10.223.62.145 with SMTP id x17mr79220fah.38.1275202814099; Sun, 30 May 2010 00:00:14 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.87.70.36 with SMTP id x36ls187082fgk.2.p; Sun, 30 May 2010 00:00:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.87.45.34 with SMTP id x34mr100073fgj.26.1275202813300; Sun, 30 May 2010 00:00:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.87.45.34 with SMTP id x34mr100072fgj.26.1275202813242; Sun, 30 May 2010 00:00:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f45.google.com (mail-vw0-f45.google.com [209.85.212.45]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 8si4138342fav.1.2010.05.30.00.00.11; Sun, 30 May 2010 00:00:12 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.45 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.45; Received: by mail-vw0-f45.google.com with SMTP id 9so104054vws.4 for ; Sun, 30 May 2010 00:00:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.61.143 with SMTP id t15mr2080456vch.139.1275202811450; Sun, 30 May 2010 00:00:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.94.77 with HTTP; Sun, 30 May 2010 00:00:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <3414c7b0-2a75-4cb2-99a4-0afa6458f6ba@t34g2000prd.googlegroups.com> <7ac5ef76-747a-4077-ac8d-bd45e0c68005@y6g2000pra.googlegroups.com> <556832.6378.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <959500ee-ea4d-4acf-9353-f2c990ba25a7@t34g2000prd.googlegroups.com> Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 03:00:11 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Named multiples From: Luke Bergen To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.45 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e0cb4e8877a797d3bd0487ca4a9e --e0cb4e8877a797d3bd0487ca4a9e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 mi cu xorla gleki luk pe'i lo nu cusku lu mi broda brodes li'u cu tcetce plixau je cinri mi ra'i la saut.park cu cusku lu mi badri pandas li'u mi'e luk no'u la cribe On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 2:48 AM, Daniel Brockman wrote: > > Ah... Makes sense. So la .lindar. is "Lindar." (a meaningless string > > of characters) and lo .lindar. is "Thing(s) named Lindar." ? That's > > nifty. > > Well, {la broca} is "Broca", but {lo broca} is just undefined. > > The same would be true of {lo lindar} (although xorxes has suggested that > the > most useful definition of at least many existing cmevla would be as you > say). > > I wouldn't focus so much on that "default meaning" stuff, as it makes the > whole concept more difficult to grasp. > > >> > Can cmevla have multiple places? > >> > >> I don't see why not? > > > > .spagetis. = x1 is spaghetti with sauce x2 > > ?? > > Sure. (Although "x1 is spaghetti of type x2" would be more likely.) > > >> > Is {me} being removed from the grammar due to it not being necessary > >> > after this change? > >> > >> No, definitely not. > > > > Then under what condition would it still be used? > > Well, that's a pretty broad question. Whenever you want to convert a sumti > into a selbri. i lo me zo me selbri cu plixau > > > Well, I'm convinced. It seems like a decent idea as long as it doesn't > > get abused. Do we just start using it now, is there some kind of > > ceremony we have to have first, or... what now? > > You can smoke whatever weird experimental stuff you can fit in your pipe, > but don't expect something like this to just suddenly change overnight. > > Most Lojbanists probably haven't even read this, much less commented. > > But people experiment with all kinds of stuff all the time (e.g., on IRC). > > > Does everybody agree on exactly how it'll work? > > I suggest you focus on the essence of it, and the essence of it is > extremely > simple: We treat cmevla exactly as we treat brivla. Read that again, > slowly: > > We treat cmevla exactly as we treat brivla. > > You know how brivla work, right? What {lo broda} and {la broda} mean? > Good. Then you know how cmevla work under xorla (i.e., exactly the same). > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --e0cb4e8877a797d3bd0487ca4a9e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable mi cu xorla gleki luk

pe'i lo nu cusku lu mi broda b= rodes li'u cu tcetce plixau je cinri

mi ra'= ;i la saut.park cu cusku lu mi badri pandas li'u

=A0mi'e luk no'u la cribe

On Sun,= May 30, 2010 at 2:48 AM, Daniel Brockman <daniel@brockman.se> wrote:
> Ah... Makes sense. So la .lindar. is "Lindar.&q= uot; (a meaningless string
> of characters) and lo .lindar. is "Thing(s) named Lindar." ?= That's
> nifty.

Well, {la broca} is "Broca", but {lo broca} is just undefin= ed.

The same would be true of {lo lindar} (although xorxes has suggested that t= he
most useful definition of at least many existing cmevla would be as you say= ).

I wouldn't focus so much on that "default meaning" stuff, as = it makes the
whole concept more difficult to grasp.

>> > Can cmevla have multiple places?
>>
>> I don't see why not?
>
> .spagetis. =3D x1 is spaghetti with sauce x2
> ??

Sure. =A0(Although "x1 is spaghetti of type x2" would be mo= re likely.)

>> > Is {me} being removed from the grammar due to it not being ne= cessary
>> > after this change?
>>
>> No, definitely not.
>
> Then under what condition would it still be used?

Well, that's a pretty broad question. =A0Whenever you want to con= vert a sumti
into a selbri. =A0i lo me zo me selbri cu plixau

> Well, I'm convinced. It seems like a decent idea as long as it doe= sn't
> get abused. Do we just start using it now, is there some kind of
> ceremony we have to have first, or... what now?

You can smoke whatever weird experimental stuff you can fit in your p= ipe,
but don't expect something like this to just suddenly change overnight.=

Most Lojbanists probably haven't even read this, much less commented.
But people experiment with all kinds of stuff all the time (e.g., on IRC).<= br>

> Does everybody agree on exactly how it'll work?

I suggest you focus on the essence of it, and the essence of it is ex= tremely
simple: We treat cmevla exactly as we treat brivla. =A0Read that again, slo= wly:

=A0 =A0We treat cmevla exactly as we treat brivla.

You know how brivla work, right? =A0What {lo broda} and {la broda} mean? Good. =A0Then you know how cmevla work under xorla (i.e., exactly the same)= .

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