From lojban+bncCJuP2OfEBBChjZHfBBoEd7Uq9A@googlegroups.com Fri May 07 09:58:32 2010 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1OAQsa-0006ts-Sy; Fri, 07 May 2010 09:58:31 -0700 Received: by wyb36 with SMTP id 36sf568684wyb.16 for ; Fri, 07 May 2010 09:58:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:sender :received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=An2EV46GskUuy/kaDjRNeM0+mxWqnT2EqW97SLkCuwc=; b=rgaHxoReaTnuBni9ixk+AwyN50W30PRHq8/5FmkBcq80rI8tX23IxPJEClW0Sokz+k xMDpNDhlsKMthBA0czWHVMyej9XpPO9AffW8rdhROzpySxrubEAHtxgEHG8Mxdym/xGH BD3ypgggLNTYIb3oKYfBwGAhTzSsIk5aTlbdU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; b=z1LKQipdchsq9lCQWPkimTdAXiY6sB/5SL6TVppHl++g2RUUIZWa8cfkz81GPP5cnH vsYxv6OGKBr1jKAHJQFizFUBCbr1RCEKU4N29Rjvna6DCJzaSd4bdtj0rDAlyAMmeBq/ k1jqDLHLc7YVzXGwCK6OxnWWU9l8ozJjiqywA= Received: by 10.223.64.206 with SMTP id f14mr23415fai.49.1273251489329; Fri, 07 May 2010 09:58:09 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.213.59.131 with SMTP id l3ls2676218ebh.1.p; Fri, 07 May 2010 09:58:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.47.209 with SMTP id o17mr54460ebf.12.1273251487291; Fri, 07 May 2010 09:58:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.47.209 with SMTP id o17mr54459ebf.12.1273251487252; Fri, 07 May 2010 09:58:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f48.google.com (mail-vw0-f48.google.com [209.85.212.48]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 18si179204ewy.12.2010.05.07.09.58.05; Fri, 07 May 2010 09:58:06 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of adamgarrigus@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.48 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.48; Received: by vws4 with SMTP id 4so210881vws.21 for ; Fri, 07 May 2010 09:58:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.126.222 with SMTP id d30mr167658vcs.198.1273251484127; Fri, 07 May 2010 09:58:04 -0700 (PDT) Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.44.206 with HTTP; Fri, 7 May 2010 09:58:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201005062238.58059.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 12:58:04 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] The North Wind and the Sun From: "komfo,amonan" To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of adamgarrigus@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.48 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=adamgarrigus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: adamgarrigus@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e68f9f1e6bd23d048603f635 --0016e68f9f1e6bd23d048603f635 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That doesen't seem to solve the problem that d2 is a fact/du'u, while g2 is an event. The gismu list, under {djuno}, mentions {tadjyju'o} for "know how to". It's not in jbovlaste. That almost flies: d1djuno lo du'u t1 tadji t2 -- x1 knows that x2 is a method for doing x3 But there d1 knows that the method exists, but not necessarily how to implement it. I guess to me, "knowing how to do something" is {certu} or {cremli}. But that notion doesn't contribute much to the other quandaries. On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 12:46 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > May I suggest a lujvo involving gasnu? > gasnu gau "do" "x1 [person/agent] is an agentive cause of event x2; **x1 > does/brings about x2**" > > For example: > gauju'o - g1=3Dd1 knows how to bring about g2=3Dd2 > > 2010/5/7 Jorge Llamb=EDas > > On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 11:38 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote: >> > I'm not sure how to say "persuade"; there's a translation in >> > jbovlaste, but it's for "persuade that something is true", not "persua= de >> to >> > do something". >> >> Similarly: >> >> djuno: know that something is true >> ????: know how to do something >> >> facki: find out that something is true >> ????: find out how to do something >> >> cilre: learn that something is true >> ????: learn to do something >> >> ctuca: teach that something is true >> ????: teach to do something >> >> morji: remember that something is true >> ????: remember to do something >> >> jdice: decide that something is true >> ????: decide to do something >> >> Solve one and maybe you will solve them all. >> >> mu'o mi'e xorxes >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> >> > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --0016e68f9f1e6bd23d048603f635 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That doesen't seem to solve the problem that d2 is a fact/du'u, whi= le g2 is an event.

The gismu list, under {djuno}, mentions {tadjyju&= #39;o} for "know how to". It's not in jbovlaste. That almost = flies:

d1djuno lo du'u t1 tadji t2 -- x1 knows that x2 is a method for doi= ng x3

But there d1 knows that the method exists, but not necessarily= how to implement it.

I guess to me, "knowing how to do somethi= ng" is {certu} or {cremli}. But that notion doesn't contribute muc= h to the other quandaries.


On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 12:46 PM, Jonatha= n Jones <eyeonus@= gmail.com> wrote:
May I suggest a lujvo involving gasnu?
gasnu gau "do"= "x1 [person/agent] is an agent= ive cause of event x2; *x1 does/brings about x2*"

For ex= ample:
gauju'o - g1=3Dd1 knows how to bring about g2=3Dd2

2010/5/7 Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 11:38 PM, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
> I'm not sure how to say "persuade"; there's a transl= ation in
> jbovlaste, but it's for "persuade that something is true"= ;, not "persuade to
> do something".

Similarly:

djuno: know that something is true
????: know how to do something

facki: find out that something is true
????: find out how to do something

cilre: learn that something is true
????: learn to do something

ctuca: teach that something is true
????: teach to do something

morji: remember that something is true
????: remember to do something

jdice: decide that something is true
????: decide to do something

Solve one and maybe you will solve them all.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.




--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'= ;e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
--0016e68f9f1e6bd23d048603f635--