From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBD13pHfBBoEQUbUuQ@googlegroups.com Fri May 07 12:52:42 2010 Received: from mail-qy0-f149.google.com ([209.85.221.149]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1OATbA-0003Wq-5E; Fri, 07 May 2010 12:52:42 -0700 Received: by qyk13 with SMTP id 13sf826932qyk.1 for ; Fri, 07 May 2010 12:52:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=UhATOmWnE08C+ArHca7eYVzmZ1PWajRrPj0837dAXUo=; b=TWTnd+zgck8KrAMkNKWUlqsoqJ0eXa/R61srWs8+dWtvtyquDAA2wbIWC+rdg9hn5M FgeBn3GdtxUV7RUaOW5MSGoA0v89oXP8A5g9+EdMc646nxpby1LXjW7jL5T7pGY2IoUe GNl+sb0zeRE1hCJ9RzfYErRLcnzDD66m727Js= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=Pe1M39cvY23tsYL9q/EAoVR8KxnQ3iU9WdWW1mUyhVEzqRHu5fl97hTnaPPnnYyFgh VPGx4G3rHQXKB0ZykQr9gNzsODxf1mY/ZekSk4Hc9+ohaxvw6bqpnu8vZTPT/S9QSVex GbP8vCVqn3VR8vn9Z5U5srQtgy+xlcR7t9T4Y= Received: by 10.224.105.105 with SMTP id s41mr26208qao.17.1273261941851; Fri, 07 May 2010 12:52:21 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.224.42.12 with SMTP id q12ls4880292qae.0.p; Fri, 07 May 2010 12:52:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.87.224 with SMTP id x32mr40221qal.25.1273261940887; Fri, 07 May 2010 12:52:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.87.224 with SMTP id x32mr40220qal.25.1273261940496; Fri, 07 May 2010 12:52:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f47.google.com (mail-vw0-f47.google.com [209.85.212.47]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 25si538318qyk.11.2010.05.07.12.52.19; Fri, 07 May 2010 12:52:19 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.47 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.47; Received: by vws13 with SMTP id 13so1339458vws.6 for ; Fri, 07 May 2010 12:52:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.108.20 with SMTP id d20mr310786vcp.205.1273261938478; Fri, 07 May 2010 12:52:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.94.77 with HTTP; Fri, 7 May 2010 12:52:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201005062238.58059.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 15:52:18 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] The North Wind and the Sun From: Luke Bergen To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.47 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00c09f8fe5d98d8bf404860665c7 --00c09f8fe5d98d8bf404860665c7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Ok, maybe a better example. {kelcygau} vs. {kelcyri'a}. If I buy two kids a checkerboard, I am in effect causing them to play. This is a different thing from actually doing the playing myself. Causing an event is different from "do"ing an event (i.e. participating in it), is it not? Or maybe that's where the difference between {zukte} and {gasnu} comes in (not that I've ever really understood that distinction). On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 3:38 PM, tijlan wrote: > On 7 May 2010 20:23, Luke Bergen wrote: > >> hmm, I've often wondered about that. What exactly is the difference >> between {cikygau} and {cikyri'a}? > > > For example: > > mi cikygau do fi'o cikri'a lo junla > I do your being woken up by a clock. > > {mi} prepares the clock so that it wakes {do} up, hence the agent of {do}'s > waking up. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --00c09f8fe5d98d8bf404860665c7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok, maybe a better example. =A0{kelcygau} vs. {kelcyri'a}. =A0If I buy = two kids a checkerboard, I am in effect causing them to play. =A0This is a = different thing from actually doing the playing myself. =A0Causing an event= is different from "do"ing an event (i.e. participating in it), i= s it not? =A0Or maybe that's where the difference between {zukte} and {= gasnu} comes in (not that I've ever really understood that distinction)= .

On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 3:38 PM, tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com= > wrote:
On 7 May 2010 20:23, Luke Berg= en <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
hmm, I've often wondered about that. =A0What exactly is the difference = between {cikygau} and {cikyri'a}?

For exampl= e:

=A0mi cikygau do fi'o cikri'a lo junla
=A0I do your be= ing woken up by a clock.

{mi} prepares the clock so that it wakes {do} up, hence the agent of {d= o}'s waking up.

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