From lojban+bncCOzcnrWBFBDSjJffBBoEDv8KEw@googlegroups.com Sat May 08 13:15:31 2010 Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1OAqQo-0006YS-Qm; Sat, 08 May 2010 13:15:31 -0700 Received: by gwj18 with SMTP id 18sf1460604gwj.16 for ; Sat, 08 May 2010 13:15:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:sender :received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=4EgNeS2RT+8wT+u6JnfmiwdQww0d5Tdyu/WTBItbKcs=; b=6bVZEsVk/BAjTR2DZNQpXdUJ9rWOLk3WU/aSRW1vhZPGPYyP2LcuEXTfkr7ouXq9jG KKrnAWc/p5qVMwS6G/q5DvTCySZPW2SeB7aFclIHbRUygaZ0+EGln3gYzYTKv+OxA/et QJ4phFOc6+kUKTiJ5y3+oX8dmqzD78HED4N8g= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; b=j7BY/2X2ImyrQXRbcVtuI9OM867lbl4B+us9qGKWF1kS7uHeU3bd22SITIehKlBRds 34pIQsnIKPl7+nsUAm+lESEot0jYaBVcO8fhGd9kQPp0iCrDcdUbXTsKaLPoXqMFPEHI kc3/7BhUTfND1im011pG9b4kDXLIXXen60ud0= Received: by 10.150.120.23 with SMTP id s23mr354026ybc.74.1273349714259; Sat, 08 May 2010 13:15:14 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.150.248.9 with SMTP id v9ls9795839ybh.5.p; Sat, 08 May 2010 13:15:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.127.28 with SMTP id z28mr3687171ybc.15.1273349713409; Sat, 08 May 2010 13:15:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.127.28 with SMTP id z28mr3687170ybc.15.1273349713376; Sat, 08 May 2010 13:15:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f193.google.com (mail-qy0-f193.google.com [209.85.221.193]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 24si326240yxe.9.2010.05.08.13.15.12; Sat, 08 May 2010 13:15:12 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of pascal.akihiko@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.193 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.221.193; Received: by mail-qy0-f193.google.com with SMTP id 31so3837565qyk.25 for ; Sat, 08 May 2010 13:15:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.52.154 with SMTP id i26mr1181180qag.154.1273349711846; Sat, 08 May 2010 13:15:11 -0700 (PDT) Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.1.222 with HTTP; Sat, 8 May 2010 13:15:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 21:15:11 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Named multiples From: tijlan To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of pascal.akihiko@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.193 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=pascal.akihiko@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: pascal.akihiko@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00c09fa21dfc400bcd04861ad560 --00c09fa21dfc400bcd04861ad560 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2010/5/7 Jorge Llamb=EDas > On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 1:04 PM, Daniel Brockman > wrote: > > > > In effect, what you're saying is that you want to completely merge > > cmevla and fu'ivla. > > Merge the syntactic classes cmevla and brivla, yes. Brivla would still > be divided in four morphological classes: gismu/lujvo/fu'ivla/cmevla, > but there is no need for the last class to have its own separate > syntax. > > > I don't really see what you're saying here, unless you also want to > > argue that {.xorxes.} has a "meaning". What's the difference? > > A predicate "xorxes" could mean "is named 'xorxes'", if anything at > all. > I guess the merging would involve changing the stress rules for cmevla a little bit. Firstly, no stress for monosyllabic cmevla, especially when use= d as a selbri. Otherwise the likes of {ko'a JAN je prenu} would be a problem. Secondly, the stress position would have to be fixed in some way. Imagine a nation whose name could be lojbanized as {nantanmin} with the original stress on the first {nan}. {ti NANtanmin cidja}, intended to mean "this is Nantanmin-type-of food", could possibly be mistaken for {ti NANtan mincidja= } or even {tiNAN tanmincidja}. Doing away with the stress wouldn't solve this= . But would {nantanMIN} or {nanTANmin}? mu'o mi'e tijlan --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --00c09fa21dfc400bcd04861ad560 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
2010/5/7 Jorge Llamb=EDas <= jjllambias@gmail.com>=
On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 1:04 PM, Daniel Brockman <dbrockman@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> In effect, what you're saying is that you want to completely merge=
> cmevla and fu'ivla.

Merge the syntactic classes cmevla and brivla, yes. Brivla would stil= l
be divided in four morphological classes: gismu/lujvo/fu'ivla/cmevla, but there is no need for the last class to have its own separate
syntax.

> I don't really see what you're saying here, unless you also wa= nt to
> argue that {.xorxes.} has a "meaning". =A0What's the dif= ference?

A predicate "xorxes" could mean "is named 'xorxes&= #39;", if anything at
all.

I guess the merging would involve changing th= e stress rules for cmevla a little bit. Firstly, no stress for monosyllabic= cmevla, especially when used as a selbri. Otherwise the likes of {ko'a= JAN je prenu} would be a problem. Secondly, the stress position would have= to be fixed in some way. Imagine a nation whose name could be lojbanized a= s {nantanmin} with the original stress on the first {nan}. {ti NANtanmin ci= dja}, intended to mean "this is Nantanmin-type-of food", could po= ssibly be mistaken for {ti NANtan mincidja} or even {tiNAN tanmincidja}. Do= ing away with the stress wouldn't solve this. But would {nantanMIN} or = {nanTANmin}?

mu'o mi'e tijlan



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