From lojban+bncCMvjp-TQBRC_k5ffBBoELR_IMQ@googlegroups.com Sat May 08 13:30:14 2010 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1OAqey-0007Db-5u; Sat, 08 May 2010 13:30:13 -0700 Received: by wwi17 with SMTP id 17sf928129wwi.16 for ; Sat, 08 May 2010 13:29:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:mime-version:sender :received:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=4wRr/rM/5YP3I3v/ffhn6xJesmB9m7L5/tQDblCc1Aw=; b=y0XxWVV4VeRoxvkSorCF0fgQTEHvvIqkUw40EuXv02GIsttGUvLk0RVmFf0VksqsEx mgwAoD94V+z5i/d4aO2Znv+upWaOo1MjMA5iRNzyg81BVh1/LD0AAtM0ruPWSJKj84k/ kCOrcRfwd/7A1hZiiAwnh68rqmeas7KKr8NPI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=NRMyPXCH4X1SVh/qFnIpkdcFPRN2McGXsaDgQWhAuych19yTx1gNfm0Li/pbASdVvL s/SqkmNS71uspQBRq0muy4n+DvSYBLpjJAWWYD0S11Gc1KEc/2w6BKsptvDZukjU51JM YpYCNCj4lJPLQkDMtIYPPqXK+X66dEOE9UhPE= Received: by 10.223.60.83 with SMTP id o19mr192159fah.42.1273350591411; Sat, 08 May 2010 13:29:51 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.223.149.73 with SMTP id s9ls7352732fav.2.p; Sat, 08 May 2010 13:29:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.36.203 with SMTP id u11mr65030fad.4.1273350590560; Sat, 08 May 2010 13:29:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.36.203 with SMTP id u11mr65029fad.4.1273350590536; Sat, 08 May 2010 13:29:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-bw0-f226.google.com (mail-bw0-f226.google.com [209.85.218.226]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id g17si1892686fai.2.2010.05.08.13.29.49; Sat, 08 May 2010 13:29:49 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of dbrockman@gmail.com designates 209.85.218.226 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.218.226; Received: by bwz26 with SMTP id 26so1256156bwz.27 for ; Sat, 08 May 2010 13:29:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.9.152 with SMTP id l24mr1095387bkl.193.1273350589321; Sat, 08 May 2010 13:29:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.163.144 with HTTP; Sat, 8 May 2010 13:29:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Daniel Brockman Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 22:29:29 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Named multiples To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of dbrockman@gmail.com designates 209.85.218.226 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=dbrockman@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: dbrockman@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> In effect, what you're saying is that you want to completely merge >> cmevla and fu'ivla. > > Merge the syntactic classes cmevla and brivla, yes. Brivla would still > be divided in four morphological classes: gismu/lujvo/fu'ivla/cmevla, > but there is no need for the last class to have its own separate > syntax. Yeah, I understand. I think of it as merging cmevla and fu'ivla, since what you're doing is essentially turning cmevla into a variant of fu'ivla. But talking about it like that is probably misleading, since it will make people think about morphology instead of syntax. >> I don't really see what you're saying here, unless you also want to >> argue that {.xorxes.} has a "meaning". =A0What's the difference? > > A predicate "xorxes" could mean "is named 'xorxes'", if anything at > all. In any case, in "la xorxes" the meaning of the predicate is as > irrelevant as the meaning of "donri" in "la donri". "la" in any case > removes the meaning from the word that follows. Yes, okay. > "x1 is named '...'" would probably be the default meaning for cmevla. > But other cmevla, like "spagetis" or "opel" would carry more meaning > than just "x1 is named '...'". Maybe the distinction is that a name like {opel} (for the cars) is defined in a more sophisticated way than simply enumerating all its referents. If so, then I agree: {spagetis} definitely has more meaning than {xorxes}. Enumerating all spaghetti would be impossible; enumerating you is easy. Anyway, I think your solution is great. Do you see any problems with it? --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.