From lojban+bncCOzcnrWBFBDRqJffBBoEuDV0ag@googlegroups.com Sat May 08 14:15:13 2010 Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1OArMb-00029J-Ul; Sat, 08 May 2010 14:15:13 -0700 Received: by gwj18 with SMTP id 18sf1503287gwj.16 for ; Sat, 08 May 2010 14:15:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:sender :received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=N6RrFOqZPdiqUBdF2Rw5/V0B/jau41/DzatUwlSckXs=; b=DfhvrHWTWVcnau2KpOEEC6Qomyeq85a4HgswqH2q4AE2WlA9JjnpK2N+Wo9/0MYMc4 a3DLMzbEwu5H+kricnq7GE9gQne+EfMr6a1xIN1/PXlGm13EQyS0wAlCcxsU1cdcUb+n j2aQozRedgJ0Dk8coe34xdQ9RdZx2Mzo7JQSM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; b=Hoo/tUZQj3J7oYD9Hryw0uR1zCSp3E+Z/D55DBCBsCWzRuO3cANO3U+BO7WNyGg3Eq 8l/Y8rJkGHGwqCJ0vUM8WN7JQ4tIGNgxPHmB3NgtaALpDMhhBc/kN1TkWReTdrI5RTNy hZa/KIR6PUFI1CVbn8nJMHcE8Ri6HInHm5fEk= Received: by 10.91.59.20 with SMTP id m20mr135358agk.13.1273353297192; Sat, 08 May 2010 14:14:57 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.91.66.23 with SMTP id t23ls6421313agk.6.p; Sat, 08 May 2010 14:14:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.9.19 with SMTP id 19mr3290342agi.4.1273353295942; Sat, 08 May 2010 14:14:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.9.19 with SMTP id 19mr3290340agi.4.1273353295890; Sat, 08 May 2010 14:14:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f188.google.com (mail-qy0-f188.google.com [209.85.221.188]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 18si333635gxk.7.2010.05.08.14.14.54; Sat, 08 May 2010 14:14:54 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of pascal.akihiko@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.188 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.221.188; Received: by mail-qy0-f188.google.com with SMTP id 26so3710447qyk.19 for ; Sat, 08 May 2010 14:14:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.110.202 with SMTP id o10mr1230015qap.58.1273353294517; Sat, 08 May 2010 14:14:54 -0700 (PDT) Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.1.222 with HTTP; Sat, 8 May 2010 14:14:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 22:14:54 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Named multiples From: tijlan To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of pascal.akihiko@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.188 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=pascal.akihiko@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: pascal.akihiko@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000feae9fe24cb169b04861baa1a --000feae9fe24cb169b04861baa1a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2010/5/8 Jorge Llamb=EDas > On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 5:15 PM, tijlan wrote: > > 2010/5/7 Jorge Llamb=EDas > >> > >> Merge the syntactic classes cmevla and brivla, yes. Brivla would still > >> be divided in four morphological classes: gismu/lujvo/fu'ivla/cmevla, > >> but there is no need for the last class to have its own separate > >> syntax. > > > > I guess the merging would involve changing the stress rules for cmevla = a > > little bit. > > No, the phonological/morphological rules are totally independent of > what I'm saying. All the phonological rules accomplish is break down a > string of phonemes into a string of words. Once we have those words > identified, how they are then structured to form a text is independent > of the previous step. > Yes, I understand that. What I'm failing to see in spite of my 3 years of Lojban experience is how a listener (not a reader) is supposed to recognise the 'pause after the final consonant' of a cmevla. How exactly is the pause supposed to be realised orally, so as to differentiate the sequence of sounds "min.ci" from "minci"? --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --000feae9fe24cb169b04861baa1a Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
2010/5/8 Jorge Llamb=EDas <= jjllambias@gmail.com>=
On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 5:15 PM, tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2010/5/7 Jorge Llamb=EDas <= jjllambias@gmail.com>
>>
>> Merge the syntactic classes cmevla and bri= vla, yes. Brivla would still
>> be divided in four morphological classes: gismu/lujvo/fu'ivla/= cmevla,
>> but there is no need for the last class to have its own separate >> syntax.
>
> I guess the merging would involve changing the= stress rules for cmevla a
> little bit.

No, the phonological/morphological rules are totally independent of what I'm saying. All the phonological rules accomplish is break down a<= br> string of phonemes into a string of words. Once we have those words
identified, how they are then structured to form a text is independent
of the previous step.

Yes, I understand that. What= I'm failing to see in spite of my 3 years of Lojban experience is how = a listener (not a reader) is supposed to recognise the 'pause after the= final consonant' of a cmevla. How exactly is the pause supposed to be = realised orally, so as to differentiate the sequence of sounds "min.ci" from "minci"?

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