From lojban+bncCMHEmaCOBhDDtZffBBoEA7GAbQ@googlegroups.com Sat May 08 14:42:45 2010 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1OArnE-0003fc-7c; Sat, 08 May 2010 14:42:45 -0700 Received: by wyb36 with SMTP id 36sf1004801wyb.16 for ; Sat, 08 May 2010 14:42:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=0IEVbdgjRFSz1CA2ogdza/s0EfnILLAo3EOVHeoO5Cs=; b=I8Y3nuc1hcL5ImXEo6m/pnWDGxyggK1vyGN7gURR7o+NQ1fnrW3enw+m3NgiGKynky /U1fy40IDNm27UOuQo+nF5KO8xq/70CRDn34hX2V0XwtEmOy+qH7ZFNikXvlgKSQ4etP ZFgB8kkw3oghhcGw8mxKTYRV4LY2MtZiwU97Y= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=OCXvNLcOgyHnXHwW3KOlFYzfdpw1F13jUtLp1GpHnfqQW/BZJjnrg7ldbsV5XQ1Whh W6a0nDQeaEJ5ZjPoN6yV3AQdT5X7QAFIab4HAjSbCDTSyOZ3N4FVU2TMlDfKiM8aEoMJ V1GrelSuBSBpkvs7yEJwrRIS4ukEcageMwN9Y= Received: by 10.223.16.87 with SMTP id n23mr197417faa.44.1273354947192; Sat, 08 May 2010 14:42:27 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.227.87.4 with SMTP id u4ls6950294wbl.2.p; Sat, 08 May 2010 14:42:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.132.74 with SMTP id a10mr120740wbt.26.1273354944827; Sat, 08 May 2010 14:42:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.132.74 with SMTP id a10mr120739wbt.26.1273354944786; Sat, 08 May 2010 14:42:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wy0-f178.google.com (mail-wy0-f178.google.com [74.125.82.178]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id p18si4423267wbc.0.2010.05.08.14.42.23; Sat, 08 May 2010 14:42:23 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.178 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.178; Received: by mail-wy0-f178.google.com with SMTP id 42so1749212wyb.37 for ; Sat, 08 May 2010 14:42:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.85.70 with SMTP id t48mr1183595wee.59.1273354943595; Sat, 08 May 2010 14:42:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.51.7 with HTTP; Sat, 8 May 2010 14:42:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 15:42:23 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Named multiples From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.178 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d7e9491604cf04861c0d23 --0016e6d7e9491604cf04861c0d23 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 3:14 PM, tijlan wrote: > 2010/5/8 Jorge Llamb=EDas > > On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 5:15 PM, tijlan wrote: >> > 2010/5/7 Jorge Llamb=EDas >> >> >> >> Merge the syntactic classes cmevla and brivla, yes. Brivla would stil= l >> >> be divided in four morphological classes: gismu/lujvo/fu'ivla/cmevla, >> >> but there is no need for the last class to have its own separate >> >> syntax. >> > >> > I guess the merging would involve changing the stress rules for cmevla= a >> > little bit. >> >> No, the phonological/morphological rules are totally independent of >> what I'm saying. All the phonological rules accomplish is break down a >> string of phonemes into a string of words. Once we have those words >> identified, how they are then structured to form a text is independent >> of the previous step. >> > > Yes, I understand that. What I'm failing to see in spite of my 3 years of > Lojban experience is how a listener (not a reader) is supposed to recogni= se > the 'pause after the final consonant' of a cmevla. How exactly is the pau= se > supposed to be realised orally, so as to differentiate the sequence of > sounds "min.ci" from "minci"? > I would imagine they would figure it out from the speaker, you know, pausing. Kind of like, if I were speaking this, I would've paused five time= s now. Make that six, not including the pause just after the word "six". > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > --=20 mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --0016e6d7e9491604cf04861c0d23 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 3:14 PM, tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com= > wrote:
2010/5/8 Jorge Llamb=EDas <= jjllambias@gmail.= com>

On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 5:15 PM, tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2010/5/7 Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>
>>
>> Merge the syntactic classes cmevla and brivla, yes. Bri= vla would still
>> be divided in four morphological classes: gismu/lujvo/fu'ivla/= cmevla,
>> but there is no need for the last class to have its own separate >> syntax.
>
> I guess the merging would involve changing the stress rules= for cmevla a
> little bit.

No, the phonological/morphological rules are totally independent of what I'm saying. All the phonological rules accomplish is break down a<= br> string of phonemes into a string of words. Once we have those words
identified, how they are then structured to form a text is independent
of the previous step.

Yes, I understand that= . What I'm failing to see in spite of my 3 years of Lojban experience i= s how a listener (not a reader) is supposed to recognise the 'pause aft= er the final consonant' of a cmevla. How exactly is the pause supposed = to be realised orally, so as to differentiate the sequence of sounds "= min.ci" from "min= ci"?

I would imagine they would figure it out = from the speaker, you know, pausing. Kind of like, if I were speaking this,= I would've paused five times now. Make that six, not including the pau= se just after the word "six".

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--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu
=

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