From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRCw5YPhBBoE6w_9qw@googlegroups.com Tue Jun 22 10:28:46 2010 Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OR7Gu-0002Jj-V1; Tue, 22 Jun 2010 10:28:45 -0700 Received: by qyk4 with SMTP id 4sf114249qyk.16 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 2010 10:28:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=2mg5OJbt1ZPcP/gxs2eAaubZHBY9NC5m9DlRcWlGJio=; b=gkr7DHMYhNnwUSC5wtyC+iGscj/KHQWoyAQRGAxaqeCoahR9aLsp5KAB1G5IQJa+xj 6UjTG8ByMJEJp9VLy5RvxdUYnS3pHOv4c+KH3jVUJC+N4kEu8IUQVeU9ZyuvvlEDGQMa cMTPZvF24wfi2gh25hFM9khnAdb+J66jMCP6U= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=6JpEXovVSoop3cnYZY9kZC8uDbVl3q15nreUcta74T7aiHeuILMfzVS0vVKWuUtXRZ 41tVwekov9sy8SF8hV51RuHA6CoBiDP2YsUiGu7kbHexJI/amsGFmacJFbFCn29Hlfkx CdspCUPcU+Ww7KY/sOXVlWJQgX/9KP+hsvBhg= Received: by 10.229.106.3 with SMTP id v3mr223877qco.31.1277227696695; Tue, 22 Jun 2010 10:28:16 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.210.31 with SMTP id gi31ls3071667qcb.0.p; Tue, 22 Jun 2010 10:28:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.187.140 with SMTP id cw12mr318559qcb.23.1277227695095; Tue, 22 Jun 2010 10:28:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.187.140 with SMTP id cw12mr318558qcb.23.1277227695032; Tue, 22 Jun 2010 10:28:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f48.google.com (mail-vw0-f48.google.com [209.85.212.48]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id i17si474539qci.10.2010.06.22.10.28.13; Tue, 22 Jun 2010 10:28:14 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.48 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.48; Received: by mail-vw0-f48.google.com with SMTP id 12so27919vws.21 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 2010 10:28:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.107.138 with SMTP id b10mr4381540qap.93.1277226922534; Tue, 22 Jun 2010 10:15:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.82.2 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Jun 2010 10:15:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 14:15:22 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] The place structure of {selma'o} From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.48 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > > =A0But my point is that the word "brivla" and "cmene" (well, really > cemvla?) ALREADY mean "A word in the word class of "BRIVLA" or > "CMEVLA" Right, those are two specific word classes, like A, BAI, GOhI, CU, etc. BRIVLA and CMENE are special in that they are at the same time morphological word classes and syntactic word classes, while the rest are only syntactic word classes because they are all included in the same morphological class "cmavo". > But if you really wanted to figure out a general way to say > "word class", such as in "zo broda cu cmima =A0ma poi =A0klesi lo'i lojbo > valsi", well, what's wrong with the more general "vlalei"? "vlalei" is fine, but it's more general than "selma'o", it could be any kind of word class, not just a syntactic class. The words that start with "b" for example form a word class, but not a syntactic class. The selma'o are interesting because all the members of each selma'o have the same syntax, so having a word to talk about A, BAI, CAhA, ..., ZOhU, BRIVLA and CMENE is useful, while having a word for all of those except BRIVLA and CMENE is rather pointless. We could make an effort and use "vlalei" instead of "selma'o" for that concept, but so far the word that has been generally used is "selma'o". mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.