From lojban+bncCNf8pM-bDBCkvp_hBBoEXn_FGw@googlegroups.com Sun Jun 27 16:31:15 2010 Received: from mail-qw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.216.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OT1JQ-0004m8-Jd; Sun, 27 Jun 2010 16:31:15 -0700 Received: by qwi2 with SMTP id 2sf5246921qwi.16 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2010 16:30:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received :sender:received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from :to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=Yc51iJvjOPO1Th03D4rTFxjd5vQjTwj+/i3jJzKFJXc=; b=Xb/UT0elfV7LMyqae6V6QcblDy9fcSwDhzYZj/0Utr5Q91kqKr4drTTDIrJ9k602jn g5bwfh7C/Xi2DIuCAODX1AnOk3gaxHDCYtg7vgg6CVLLJ+xR5AjxhzWZ2OKuyoKZeqar ATfAFg6oYBe7uWcP7iPPKM4QZCcxZx9Tr4urM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=PVpA3dhsQpLI4fjbEqKEoHBeFwtx8+LLpOOgsPOHFaIoC39KZFOTY2ibK89AeNfX0D JdejBV6OvIBNxxKM4LLbNdGpVUEdwfRNkFVJ8UMvGM9oA8j0+jFDEVB8eepewQULTEIm k5QNAV+y+d0+Xw1rb8FQphbNRbcXPKtwEfNzs= Received: by 10.229.52.37 with SMTP id f37mr572335qcg.9.1277681444533; Sun, 27 Jun 2010 16:30:44 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.210.31 with SMTP id gi31ls2233212qcb.0.p; Sun, 27 Jun 2010 16:30:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.93.210 with SMTP id w18mr314932qam.10.1277681443692; Sun, 27 Jun 2010 16:30:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.85.85 with SMTP id t63mr544939wee.8.1277678778464; Sun, 27 Jun 2010 15:46:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.85.85 with SMTP id t63mr544938wee.8.1277678778428; Sun, 27 Jun 2010 15:46:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wy0-f173.google.com (mail-wy0-f173.google.com [74.125.82.173]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id m7si1655174wej.7.2010.06.27.15.46.17; Sun, 27 Jun 2010 15:46:17 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of paskios@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.173 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.173; Received: by mail-wy0-f173.google.com with SMTP id 42so4479681wyb.32 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2010 15:46:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.171.147 with SMTP id r19mr2980817wel.70.1277678777144; Sun, 27 Jun 2010 15:46:17 -0700 (PDT) Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.216.89.138 with HTTP; Sun, 27 Jun 2010 15:46:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201006271620.06248.phma@phma.optus.nu> References: <201006271620.06248.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 23:46:16 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] relative clause in a name From: tijlan To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: paskios@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of paskios@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.173 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=paskios@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016367facf3a61440048a0ac5d4 --0016367facf3a61440048a0ac5d4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On 27 June 2010 21:20, Pierre Abbat wrote: > What's the difference between "la poi ma'azva .karabax." and "la karabax. > poi > ma'azva"? Which would you say? > I can think of two principles to consider. One is translational fidelity. If the non-Lojbanic source text is left-branching (dependents precede a head), it would benefit from "la poi ma'azva .karabax." than "la karabax. poi ma'azva" in terms of accuracy. The other one is flow of information as a literary device. You decide which structure is cognitively more effective in communicating the idea in question. (With the proposed change to the cmevla syntax, though, the relative clause would require "ku'o" to bar "karabax" from forming a tanru with "ma'azva" in the left-branching option.) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0016367facf3a61440048a0ac5d4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 27 June 2010 21:20, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu><= /span> wrote:
What's the difference between "la poi ma'azva .karabax." = and "la karabax. poi
ma'azva"? Which would you say?

I can thin= k of two principles to consider. One is translational fidelity. If the non-= Lojbanic source text is left-branching (dependents precede a head), it woul= d benefit from "la poi ma'azva .karabax." than "la karab= ax. poi ma'azva" in terms of accuracy. The other one is flow of in= formation as a literary device. You decide which structure is cognitively m= ore effective in communicating the idea in question.

(With the proposed change to the cmevla syntax, though, the relative cl= ause would require "ku'o" to bar "karabax" from for= ming a tanru with "ma'azva" in the left-branching option.)

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