From lojban+bncCIycn8S8DhDMsLrgBBoEwcNJCQ@googlegroups.com Tue Jun 08 12:22:08 2010 Received: from mail-pv0-f189.google.com ([74.125.83.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1OM4N6-0006Og-Vv; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:22:08 -0700 Received: by pvd12 with SMTP id 12sf315139pvd.16 for ; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:21:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=LPcv+R0TiRETXgWTbIbHToX5mKhXkKpH0BWcwSNs78A=; b=hSJxYu7+srBRgMisOkgHHv9rQPu5xc4ExiWQLUGoUTFB8ij47TqF3EZziGmVG2pT2b do5/SIga85eT/GQYLsv3EoOz7ScmANhHDVZXK+fA7m+QHPHtNW6nrQhMfkKWCNvU5gMu FydvAvVwQKrdzNd8y6mZh9MZGCmtTCb40JH6k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=3EpHhvUNoAVsXxJm8es0jxo4Y/8cKoYAFmJFsP/w1ZEik1L3ybFQbEj92qNdGHs+7S T+hWDf5oReF6SMI8UL7dNjnzCR/YOVNAk6RZw8mEkkhuTSbOysrDsM6L2cpjPsFHD9gC +bfL9lK/2iqi8g56NEVsrmXbv/ylBH51d+HUE= Received: by 10.143.21.33 with SMTP id y33mr467241wfi.43.1276024908397; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:21:48 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.142.8.28 with SMTP id 28ls7132450wfh.0.p; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:21:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.208.21 with SMTP id f21mr1237311wfg.48.1276024907378; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:21:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.208.21 with SMTP id f21mr1237310wfg.48.1276024907351; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:21:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-px0-f171.google.com (mail-px0-f171.google.com [209.85.212.171]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 25si948297pzk.8.2010.06.08.12.21.46; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:21:46 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.171 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.171; Received: by mail-px0-f171.google.com with SMTP id 13so89613pxi.2 for ; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:21:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.236.76 with SMTP id kj12mr3624807qcb.226.1276024905074; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:21:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.142.72 with HTTP; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 12:21:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <531942.95855.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <531942.95855.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 15:21:44 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.171 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364ecb383123a4048889b371 --0016364ecb383123a4048889b371 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 3:09 PM, jamie bechtel wrote: > Hello all. I've begun looking into Lojban (and Loglan), and if this is the > appropriate place to do so, I'll be asking questions here... > > If I say "le bajra" several times in an utterance, I assume that each > instance is normally interpreted as having the same reference (i.e. I'm > probably talking about only one runner). Is there a curt/simple way to > indicate that I'm talking about a new/different runner (eg. "the runner > spoke to the runner about the runner")? > Yes. le bi'u bajra (see chapter 13, section 13 of the Complete Lojban Language) > > Loglan "le", and in some places Lojban "le" is described as analogous to > the English definite article (i.e. "le bajra" means the particular runner > that I have in mind). Elsewhere, "le/lo" are distinguished by whether or > not "the runner" really is a runner, or merely something that I casually > choose to call a runner (correct?). Are both of these interpretations of > "le" correct? And if "lo" can only mean "that which is most definitely > a...", under what circumstances would I use it? All that I can think of > is "a man walks into a bar...", and other such jokes. It looks to me like > there's no real indefinite article, and that "le" is going to be used much > more than "lo". Not that that looks like a problem to me. I just want to > be sure that I have a clear understanding of gadri. > > The langauge has been moving away from the necessity of "lo" referring to sctual things, and most of the time, we now use "lo". (This change is called xorlo, and will be reflected in the (someday in the future) new version of the grammar. I believe that "le mi cutci", and "le cutci pe le bajra" are legitimate, > correct? Can one also say "le cutci pe mi"? Can one say "le mi pe bajra"?? > > Yes, those are correct, except the last one (you can say "le pe mi cutci", though.) Attitude indicators seem to follow rather than precede the words that they > modify. Why do they differ in this way from other Lojban words? > > That's just the way they are? --gejyspa -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0016364ecb383123a4048889b371 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 3:09 PM, jamie be= chtel <jamie629= 7@yahoo.com> wrote:
<= div style=3D"font-family: 'times new roman','new york',time= s,serif; font-size: 12pt; background-color: white; border-style: none; colo= r: black;">
Hello all. =A0I've begun looking into Lojban (= and Loglan), and if this is the appropriate place to do so, I'll be ask= ing questions here...

If I say "le bajra" several times in an utterance,= I assume that each instance is normally interpreted as having the same reference (i.e. I'm probably talking about only one runner). =A0I= s there a curt/simple way to indicate that I'm talking about a new/diff= erent runner (eg. "the runner spoke to the runner about the runner&quo= t;)?

=A0= Yes.=A0 le bi'u bajra (see chapter 13, section 13 of the Complete Lojb= an Language)
<= div style=3D"font-family: 'times new roman','new york',time= s,serif; font-size: 12pt; background-color: white; border-style: none; colo= r: black;">

Loglan "le", and in = some places Lojban "le" is described as analogous to the English = definite article (i.e. "le bajra" means the particular runner tha= t I have in mind). =A0Elsewhere, "le/lo" are distinguished by whe= ther or not "the runner" really is a runner, or merely something = that I casually choose to call a runner (correct?). =A0Are both of these in= terpretations of "le" correct? =A0And if "lo" can only = mean "that which is most definitely a...", under what circumstanc= es would I use it? =A0All that I can think of is=A0"a man walks into a= bar...", and other such jokes. =A0It looks to me like there's no = real indefinite article, and that "le" is going to be used much m= ore than "lo". =A0Not that that looks like a problem to me. =A0I just want to be sure that I have a clear understanding of gadri.

<= div>
=A0 The langauge has been moving away from the necessity of "l= o" referring to sctual things, and most of the time, we now use "= lo".=A0 (This change is called xorlo, and will be reflected in the (so= meday in the future) new version of the grammar.

I believe that "le mi cutci", and "le cutci = pe le bajra" are legitimate, correct? =A0Can one also say "le cut= ci pe mi"? =A0Can one say "le mi pe bajra"??

<= /div>

=A0= Yes, those are correct, except the last one (you can say "le pe mi cu= tci", though.)

<= div style=3D"font-family: 'times new roman','new york',time= s,serif; font-size: 12pt; background-color: white; border-style: none; colo= r: black;">
Attitude indicators seem to follow= rather than precede the words that they modify. =A0Why do they differ in t= his way from other Lojban words?

=A0
That's just the way they are?

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0 --gejyspa


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