From lojban+bncCJ__pJiRHhDqsLrgBBoEXN0jGA@googlegroups.com Tue Jun 08 12:22:37 2010 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1OM4Nb-0006Qw-BQ; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:22:36 -0700 Received: by wwf26 with SMTP id 26sf1837203wwf.16 for ; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:22:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=Y0Gmg6+E7OWhudqzomOA0uCkvlK6MPTwvSf0vtgPNRQ=; b=HM7N3uCp0PXUdIAxV3cBS9hVsakl+Ui5GlssuycmaTuwKeyJgmCeB/tSUICCUFC7hG dwVRBRyMO6HYYlbbB68kvym30750LtA4rWmFfZ5KWd+0LcE8m+4UIEpjMVtpxGYmXEvw BRTqroT9IJ+jfOtbwCxB3Fi5bOcBR+sr51jt8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=KHRefJLliieP21NfHlqkF1ExCs+cfujzgcEx3rexRyNNixrqd5d30yryL1UN14YqCj I8v1HW5KRtSV54XTs65dnqNtSsOAQo0Immsoy1atMi4/mnmhREVdcB3+skbEJbZKCE66 O+ETW7UYLY2EtokDvh8GaMLEBQLPCY7W8vmv8= Received: by 10.223.5.152 with SMTP id 24mr753766fav.9.1276024938047; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:22:18 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.87.70.36 with SMTP id x36ls1345343fgk.2.p; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:22:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.87.73.4 with SMTP id a4mr269450fgl.15.1276024936591; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:22:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.87.73.4 with SMTP id a4mr269449fgl.15.1276024936562; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:22:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-bw0-f53.google.com (mail-bw0-f53.google.com [209.85.214.53]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 8si4000337fav.5.2010.06.08.12.22.15; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:22:15 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lakatos.isti@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.53 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.53; Received: by bwz12 with SMTP id 12so1738316bwz.26 for ; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:22:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.83.228 with SMTP id g36mr1339869bkl.133.1276024935221; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:22:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.71.136 with HTTP; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 12:22:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <531942.95855.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <531942.95855.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 22:22:15 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Istv=E1n_Lakatos?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lakatos.isti@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.53 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lakatos.isti@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: lakatos.isti@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6db2c8ffd0b78048889b422 --0016e6db2c8ffd0b78048889b422 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The use of Lojban articles has changed a little in the last few years. You should visit http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=How+to+use+xorloto get the new picture :P As for the {le bajra} problem, I suppose that most of the times you can figure out you're talking about a different runner from context. However, I am sure there is some word which will explicitly state you are talking about someone else. I'd do this myself :P, but I'm in a hurry, so what you should do is to either check the dictionary (It's really usefull. You should use it whenever you're stuck), or visit the IRC channel via the web interface from the main page, go to #ckule, and tipe in "?q different"... although I think that will only give you {drata}, which is the gismu for x1 is different from x2... You could try to use a tanru? lo drata bajra ku Hope I was helpfull. Nice to see new people learning Lojban ;) mi'e .lakatoc. mu'o On 8 June 2010 22:09, jamie bechtel wrote: > Hello all. I've begun looking into Lojban (and Loglan), and if this is the > appropriate place to do so, I'll be asking questions here... > > If I say "le bajra" several times in an utterance, I assume that each > instance is normally interpreted as having the same reference (i.e. I'm > probably talking about only one runner). Is there a curt/simple way to > indicate that I'm talking about a new/different runner (eg. "the runner > spoke to the runner about the runner")? > > Loglan "le", and in some places Lojban "le" is described as analogous to > the English definite article (i.e. "le bajra" means the particular runner > that I have in mind). Elsewhere, "le/lo" are distinguished by whether or > not "the runner" really is a runner, or merely something that I casually > choose to call a runner (correct?). Are both of these interpretations of > "le" correct? And if "lo" can only mean "that which is most definitely > a...", under what circumstances would I use it? All that I can think of > is "a man walks into a bar...", and other such jokes. It looks to me like > there's no real indefinite article, and that "le" is going to be used much > more than "lo". Not that that looks like a problem to me. I just want to > be sure that I have a clear understanding of gadri. > > I believe that "le mi cutci", and "le cutci pe le bajra" are legitimate, > correct? Can one also say "le cutci pe mi"? Can one say "le mi pe bajra"?? > > Attitude indicators seem to follow rather than precede the words that they > modify. Why do they differ in this way from other Lojban words? > > Thanks for your time and attention. > > -jamie > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0016e6db2c8ffd0b78048889b422 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The use of Lojban articles has changed a little in the last few years. You = should visit http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=3DHow+to+use= +xorlo to get the new picture :P

As for the {le bajra} problem, I suppose that most of the times you can= figure out you're talking about a different runner from context. Howev= er, I am sure there is some word which will explicitly state you are talkin= g about someone else. I'd do this myself :P, but I'm in a hurry, so= what you should do is to either check the dictionary (It's really usef= ull. You should use it whenever you're stuck), or visit the IRC channel= via the web interface from the main page, go to #ckule, and tipe in "= ?q different"... although I think that will only give you {drata}, whi= ch is the gismu for x1 is different from x2... You could try to use a tanru= ? lo drata bajra ku

Hope I was helpfull.
Nice to see new people learning Lojban ;)
mi'e .lakatoc.
mu'o

On 8 Jun= e 2010 22:09, jamie bechtel <jamie6297@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hello all. =A0I've begun looking into Lojban (and Loglan), and if this = is the appropriate place to do so, I'll be asking questions here...
If I say "le bajra" several times in an utterance= , I assume that each instance is normally interpreted as having the same reference (i.e. I'm probably talking about only one runner). =A0I= s there a curt/simple way to indicate that I'm talking about a new/diff= erent runner (eg. "the runner spoke to the runner about the runner&quo= t;)?

Loglan "le", and in some places Lojban "= le" is described as analogous to the English definite article (i.e. &q= uot;le bajra" means the particular runner that I have in mind). =A0Els= ewhere, "le/lo" are distinguished by whether or not "the run= ner" really is a runner, or merely something that I casually choose to= call a runner (correct?). =A0Are both of these interpretations of "le= " correct? =A0And if "lo" can only mean "that which is = most definitely a...", under what circumstances would I use it? =A0All= that I can think of is=A0"a man walks into a bar...", and other = such jokes. =A0It looks to me like there's no real indefinite article, = and that "le" is going to be used much more than "lo". = =A0Not that that looks like a problem to me. =A0I just want to be sure that I have a clear understanding of gadri.

I believe that "le mi cutci", and "le cutci = pe le bajra" are legitimate, correct? =A0Can one also say "le cut= ci pe mi"? =A0Can one say "le mi pe bajra"??

Attitude indicators seem to follow rather than precede = the words that they modify. =A0Why do they differ in this way from other Lo= jban words?

Thanks for your time and attention.

-jamie
=

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