From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBDPs7rgBBoExFwQNQ@googlegroups.com Tue Jun 08 12:28:33 2010 Received: from mail-pz0-f141.google.com ([209.85.222.141]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1OM4TL-0001pM-Rq; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:28:32 -0700 Received: by pzk5 with SMTP id 5sf1392290pzk.9 for ; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:28:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=dPL1WczsButHhPqWUszSza09A7bRrd7cThHaA7+T4wM=; b=ChOpaOumnJ6QRQ/lyn2sFJAInMV+Dt/U8mbqHw5VcJ+rDGcPOjZpGKPaTmXpI2MS9Y B2ywn9Q9kfxReymueIWBSOHT3CNqMal0za8I9k2HxwVTN25AmrlP1/nECSDS5B4oxENb hnP1cKSpx38R49CXrUJC7LnEW22D5dFfq0oAc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=EeEsL82utQ03t8vjuXB6rpteXk3BY/BjZNLxI+2ALqjttZ89oDGw2wGhNLB9oYtRDB ond18ZXPA7T+J81e1DgQqHuFHXy+CdGNbl4vU8l8/Bd2nNdtSUzZfWaWIpBJLIJqbamr vmsG1gqc3D9q6UNldVeIFs49aK/Q1mIW3PAUA= Received: by 10.115.38.26 with SMTP id q26mr1827918waj.11.1276025295647; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:28:15 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.115.135.31 with SMTP id m31ls4687891wan.1.p; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:28:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.115.102.23 with SMTP id e23mr1525895wam.8.1276025293133; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:28:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.115.102.23 with SMTP id e23mr1525894wam.8.1276025293102; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:28:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-px0-f171.google.com (mail-px0-f171.google.com [209.85.212.171]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id n5si9238299wab.1.2010.06.08.12.28.12; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:28:12 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.171 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.171; Received: by mail-px0-f171.google.com with SMTP id 13so41958pxi.16 for ; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:28:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.233.137 with SMTP id jy9mr6154456qcb.5.1276025291631; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:28:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.73.12 with HTTP; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 12:28:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <531942.95855.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <531942.95855.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 15:28:11 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] From: Luke Bergen To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.171 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163630f3313b6eab048889caff --00163630f3313b6eab048889caff Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 fi'i (welcome) jamie. Wow, a lot of questions. I'll answer some of them and I'm betting that others will chime in. Yes, this is the right place to ask questions about lojban. There is also a beginners list but I don't have a link handy at the moment. One way to say "the runner talks to the runner about the runner" would be to use {bi'u}. {bi'u} basically marks a construct as being new information (so not that runner that I just mentioned but a new runner). This would yield something like {le bajra cu tavla le bi'u bajra le bi'u bajra}. On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 3:09 PM, jamie bechtel wrote: > Hello all. I've begun looking into Lojban (and Loglan), and if this is the > appropriate place to do so, I'll be asking questions here... > > If I say "le bajra" several times in an utterance, I assume that each > instance is normally interpreted as having the same reference (i.e. I'm > probably talking about only one runner). Is there a curt/simple way to > indicate that I'm talking about a new/different runner (eg. "the runner > spoke to the runner about the runner")? > > Loglan "le", and in some places Lojban "le" is described as analogous to > the English definite article (i.e. "le bajra" means the particular runner > that I have in mind). Elsewhere, "le/lo" are distinguished by whether or > not "the runner" really is a runner, or merely something that I casually > choose to call a runner (correct?). Are both of these interpretations of > "le" correct? And if "lo" can only mean "that which is most definitely > a...", under what circumstances would I use it? All that I can think of > is "a man walks into a bar...", and other such jokes. It looks to me like > there's no real indefinite article, and that "le" is going to be used much > more than "lo". Not that that looks like a problem to me. I just want to > be sure that I have a clear understanding of gadri. > > I believe that "le mi cutci", and "le cutci pe le bajra" are legitimate, > correct? Can one also say "le cutci pe mi"? Can one say "le mi pe bajra"?? > > Attitude indicators seem to follow rather than precede the words that they > modify. Why do they differ in this way from other Lojban words? > > Thanks for your time and attention. > > -jamie > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --00163630f3313b6eab048889caff Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable fi'i (welcome) jamie.

Wow, a lot of questions. =A0I&= #39;ll answer some of them and I'm betting that others will chime in.

Yes, this is the right place to ask questions about= lojban. =A0There is also a beginners list but I don't have a link hand= y at the moment.

One way to say "the runner talks to the runner abo= ut the runner" would be to use {bi'u}. =A0{bi'u} basically mar= ks a construct as being new information (so not that runner that I just men= tioned but a new runner). =A0This would yield something like {le bajra cu t= avla le bi'u bajra le bi'u bajra}.


On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 3= :09 PM, jamie bechtel <jamie6297@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hello all. =A0I've begun looking into Lojban (and Lo= glan), and if this is the appropriate place to do so, I'll be asking qu= estions here...

If I say "le bajra" several times in an utterance,= I assume that each instance is normally interpreted as having the same reference (i.e. I'm probably talking about only one runner). =A0I= s there a curt/simple way to indicate that I'm talking about a new/diff= erent runner (eg. "the runner spoke to the runner about the runner&quo= t;)?

Loglan "le", and in some places Lojban "= le" is described as analogous to the English definite article (i.e. &q= uot;le bajra" means the particular runner that I have in mind). =A0Els= ewhere, "le/lo" are distinguished by whether or not "the run= ner" really is a runner, or merely something that I casually choose to= call a runner (correct?). =A0Are both of these interpretations of "le= " correct? =A0And if "lo" can only mean "that which is = most definitely a...", under what circumstances would I use it? =A0All= that I can think of is=A0"a man walks into a bar...", and other = such jokes. =A0It looks to me like there's no real indefinite article, = and that "le" is going to be used much more than "lo". = =A0Not that that looks like a problem to me. =A0I just want to be sure that I have a clear understanding of gadri.

I believe that "le mi cutci", and "le cutci = pe le bajra" are legitimate, correct? =A0Can one also say "le cut= ci pe mi"? =A0Can one say "le mi pe bajra"??

Attitude indicators seem to follow rather than precede = the words that they modify. =A0Why do they differ in this way from other Lo= jban words?

Thanks for your time and attention.

-jamie
=

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