From lojban+bncCJbznvHdFRDkmODgBBoEpgZJfA@googlegroups.com Tue Jun 15 16:28:02 2010 Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OOfXm-0007ky-Pk; Tue, 15 Jun 2010 16:28:02 -0700 Received: by yxs7 with SMTP id 7sf1070224yxs.16 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 2010 16:27:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=eFr5RxFBABkZ65SD2qJqSqW07EeAc4wKiZWdpYCxRXM=; b=h+T4N5FRPvywf0hkJ/cGzHnDQPihV7nfxh9ASn1HsZBAGYES+JOdxxA84FO9wrvb4j dgxLCeKskt2LJCYE/NmYHJyHFoXoGK32Duv7llPhMfQkKg+Etlfm+bS+M70mTsD23dHK OlpqbK14Asv6LONiedDwG7Eoff0jHeX2joXXA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=UOhe7Lx0OdpUvVFop6kUfW6Ktl/Ze6CPiEz/ICmvFNXe76OLYDoXzf11hE/DQ9tQbU UnoZTHekBcCLtWVbxTLWT703r+k97pq2kasilmywZoxBl9rr3zHItIuPx/HEAB5fqX0A R9Lw+C8isyYS7MtbhlqcDVadSfwCwxJ6IkCfU= Received: by 10.151.135.13 with SMTP id m13mr111486ybn.68.1276644452068; Tue, 15 Jun 2010 16:27:32 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.150.247.33 with SMTP id u33ls6711373ybh.4.p; Tue, 15 Jun 2010 16:27:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.63.8 with SMTP id l8mr2983014yba.27.1276644451474; Tue, 15 Jun 2010 16:27:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.63.8 with SMTP id l8mr2983012yba.27.1276644451366; Tue, 15 Jun 2010 16:27:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gx0-f176.google.com (mail-gx0-f176.google.com [209.85.161.176]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id v5si6109362ybk.5.2010.06.15.16.27.30; Tue, 15 Jun 2010 16:27:30 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.176 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.176; Received: by gxk8 with SMTP id 8so1303976gxk.21 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 2010 16:27:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.101.4.11 with SMTP id g11mr6701848ani.150.1276644450175; Tue, 15 Jun 2010 16:27:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.11.8 with HTTP; Tue, 15 Jun 2010 16:27:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201006150911.32832.phma@phma.optus.nu> References: <95822d48-fa69-4ee8-95af-ac8b356bb185@k39g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> <2129d979-ca98-4eec-a3cf-9e017ebbf099@q12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> <201006150911.32832.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 19:27:30 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Chemical elements From: MorphemeAddict To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.176 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lytlesw@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: lytlesw@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c5c1f4f50c92048919f251 --001636c5c1f4f50c92048919f251 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Aren't isotopes identifiable by atomic weight and number of "ratni"? stevo On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 9:11 AM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > On Tuesday 15 June 2010 08:26:01 lojdjis wrote: > > "xukmi'fu'e" is mys misprint. I meant "xukmifu'e". > > > > The problem is that all elements are in one periodic system. > > It's strange to name one element as dircyjinme (connection with > > radiation ?) > > and palladium (Pd/46) =3D jinmrpaladi (no connection with radiation ?) > > But many stable elements (nonradioactive) have radioactive isotopes. > > All isotopes of radium are radioactive. It wasn't the first all-radioacti= ve > element discovered, but of the first few it is the most intensely > radioactive, so it got the name. > > > Secondly, it's hard to remember all those words (some elements are > > gismu, some are fu'ivla). > > It will be easier for chemists to pronounce them as they write > > formulae. > > Same in English and other languages I know: "gold" is a gismu, "bismuth" = a > fu'ivla, many element names end in "-um" but many don't. > > There's another problem we haven't solved yet: naming chemical compounds. > In > organic chemistry there are at least two ways of using numbers: di-, tri-= , > etc. indicate how many of an element or radical there are, and 2-, 3-, et= c. > indicate on which atom it is. (I don't remember if there's a third.) We > don't > have rafsi for "hypo-", "per-", "-ate", etc. > > > Jorge Llamb=EDas, I see one more problem ;-). > > There should be some standard names for isotopes. > > I don't think we need names for isotopes, but we do need a way of > designating > them. The only isotopes that actually have names in English are protium, > deuterium, and tritium. > > Pierre > -- > When a barnacle settles down, its brain disintegrates. > J=E1 n=E3o percebe nada, j=E1 n=E3o percebe nada. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --001636c5c1f4f50c92048919f251 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Aren't isotopes identifiable by atomic weight and number of "= ratni"?
=A0
stevo

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 9:11 AM, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.n= u> wrote:
On Tuesday 15 June 2010 08:26:01 lojdjis wrote:
> &= quot;xukmi'fu'e" is mys misprint. I meant "xukmifu'e&= quot;.
>
> The problem is that all elements are in one periodic= system.
> It's strange to name one element as dircyjinme (connection with> radiation ?)
> and palladium (Pd/46) =3D jinmrpaladi =A0(no con= nection with radiation ?)
> But many stable elements (nonradioactive)= have radioactive isotopes.

All isotopes of radium are radioactive. It wasn't the first a= ll-radioactive
element discovered, but of the first few it is the most i= ntensely
radioactive, so it got the name.

> Secondly, it's hard to remember all those wo= rds (some elements are
> gismu, some are fu'ivla).
> It wil= l be easier for chemists to pronounce them as they write
> formulae.<= br>
Same in English and other languages I know: "gold" is a= gismu, "bismuth" a
fu'ivla, many element names end in &qu= ot;-um" but many don't.

There's another problem we have= n't solved yet: naming chemical compounds. In
organic chemistry there are at least two ways of using numbers: di-, tri-,<= br>etc. indicate how many of an element or radical there are, and 2-, 3-, e= tc.
indicate on which atom it is. (I don't remember if there's a= third.) We don't
have rafsi for "hypo-", "per-", "-ate", etc.<= br>

> Jorge Llamb=EDas, I see one more problem ;-).> There should be some standard names for isotopes.

I don&= #39;t think we need names for isotopes, but we do need a way of designating=
them. The only isotopes that actually have names in English are protium,deuterium, and tritium.

Pierre
--
Whe= n a barnacle settles down, its brain disintegrates.
J=E1 n=E3o percebe n= ada, j=E1 n=E3o percebe nada.

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--
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