From lojban+bncCPieuJrRARDF8uDgBBoE0SE-0Q@googlegroups.com Tue Jun 15 19:39:20 2010 Received: from mail-yw0-f152.google.com ([209.85.211.152]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OOiX4-0008Bu-47; Tue, 15 Jun 2010 19:39:20 -0700 Received: by ywh16 with SMTP id 16sf7815925ywh.24 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 2010 19:39:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:mime-version:received :in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=V0A2b/DgQCvdNANv+3lGpmpGPq4nP2wOLx/bH+mOYY0=; b=LIsDacfmBJ/0BVpWFCXchCQwEAP97lNN/5iD6WaO4yFkCkHRhd2U8I6osZl6RpH0Uf cS/p8CwU0EVolmZnmFXK6csWVluPCSutOUHkIewUsznaKlTlWILA1SFIxQ2RsFLhrBFA AJ4blChXJkDN3NwOA3EZb/Agb9pfxn8M3gHkE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=X6SOR9h68b+MWGn3J2q0QTdP2Cu6eqMEmlDlnMQFIwM+DaZslEnHGmWj23+Gbw71ls EtO3RLoD6/bbHf52Y+wQgldo/Q7IvM6lLBb1jeytMhxEECLW+6V3g0bs/LKIAA7WCC1E PrnfKl627Lf7cX7FYnW/S1cMUQCo4dsHKSVFk= Received: by 10.101.175.14 with SMTP id c14mr557167anp.34.1276655941480; Tue, 15 Jun 2010 19:39:01 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.101.145.32 with SMTP id x32ls15971ann.0.p; Tue, 15 Jun 2010 19:39:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.101.209.5 with SMTP id l5mr2596496anq.2.1276655940707; Tue, 15 Jun 2010 19:39:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.101.209.5 with SMTP id l5mr2596495anq.2.1276655940683; Tue, 15 Jun 2010 19:39:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-f182.google.com (mail-yw0-f182.google.com [209.85.211.182]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id m3si4945684anh.4.2010.06.15.19.38.59; Tue, 15 Jun 2010 19:38:59 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of purpleposeidon@gmail.com designates 209.85.211.182 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.211.182; Received: by ywh12 with SMTP id 12so4160569ywh.14 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 2010 19:38:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.101.130.8 with SMTP id h8mr6677199ann.36.1276655939183; Tue, 15 Jun 2010 19:38:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.91.10 with HTTP; Tue, 15 Jun 2010 19:38:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <95822d48-fa69-4ee8-95af-ac8b356bb185@k39g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> <2129d979-ca98-4eec-a3cf-9e017ebbf099@q12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> <201006150911.32832.phma@phma.optus.nu> From: purpleposeidon Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 19:38:39 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Chemical elements To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: purpleposeidon@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of purpleposeidon@gmail.com designates 209.85.211.182 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=purpleposeidon@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 xorxes wrote: > It does make sense to use the ISO-codes fu'ivla pattern for "x1 is > chemical element with symbol XX". I see only one problem: the pattern > doesn't work for iodine, oxygen and uranium, because "xukmi'i", > "xukmi'o" and "xukmi'u" are lujvo, not fu'ivla. "xukmiri", "xukmiro", and "xukmiru"? I think it'd be better to just cmenenize the compound's name, rather than re-implementing a nomenclature with inconsistencies and unnameable molecules..... ha ha, I fool nobody. **RAMBLING WARNING** It's been a while since I've taken OC, but I'll give it a shot. tanru have lots of infrastructure already, so let's use tanru. Tentative Rules: * Ought to end with "xukmi", especially if context isn't established, or if hydrogen atoms have been elided, and they certainly will in organic chemistry. So, HOH could be written verbosely as "cidro kijno cidro", or less so with "kijno xukmi". * Repetition of atoms (or chemical chains) should be indicated using "[PA mei] ". So, propane would be "ci mei tabno xukmi". Methane would be "tabno xukmi" * To indicate the bond type, use "[PA mei] dikca". Without dikca, there is a single bond. With dikca, a double bond. For other bonds, use something different. For example, for ionic bonds, use "dukti". NaCl would be "sodna dukti kliru" * Loops would use "clupa {(co'e ) }". The beginning of the chemical is joined with the end, using the "co'e" bond. A ring of 5 carbons would be "clupa mumei tabno xukmi" * Branches should be joined with "joi". The first item listed is the one that connects with the previous chemical chain, and connects to the following chain. Branches that are duplicates could be indicated using "joi xi PA". For example, methane would be "tabno joi xi vo cidro", and the hydrogens won't be elided. * Chirality would be indicated with a direction of twist. I don't know any words for CW or CC. * Chair/Boat configuration (are those the correct words?) could be kruca/panra Let's watch it and myself fail about with some simple examples. C | C-C-C-C | C (dimethylbutane) remei tabno ke pamei joi xi re tabno ke'e tabno xukmi (going from right to left) C || C-C | C (asdfylate) tabno tabno joi dikca bo tabno joi tabno xukmi remei tabno joi dikca bo tabno joi tabno xukmi C-C-O (ethanol) remei tabno kijno xumki C | C-C=O (acetone) tabno ke tabno joi tabno joi dikca kijno ke'e xumki (a long carbon chain) tabno tabno joi tabno dikca kijno xumki (a chain ending with oxygen) pei I am not sure the grouping of the tanru is really the way it should be. mu'omi'e .djeims. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.