From lojban+bncCNTPpI2KGxCH7u7gBBoEV3ekUg@googlegroups.com Fri Jun 18 11:12:40 2010 Received: from mail-gx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OPg3P-00083g-EH; Fri, 18 Jun 2010 11:12:40 -0700 Received: by gxk2 with SMTP id 2sf974962gxk.16 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2010 11:12:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:received:received:from:to:subject:date:user-agent :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; bh=wJdDdQ9uTzPDCwn4ui/7Qoq9U9alYXqP7/2NlqSi48A=; b=rF/HS+MrpWJ1ej67yWFWy10CEvaiEaarGUegF7jhke+meaxcTQyEUS0MTF4ZefJjuo ycU669r4Vpy3u00sBg9xXG6hichPAjBprmwFK2fyms3OdEdhwUFCdOuN0uAmN2c9R6GM BRQJZzi0mEpUyAFui6cAgyvzpiSPzW1kYNp90= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references :in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; b=tTtHVsjaQiF/7cf6Ww3HPV7xXCCFs6sfps73SGA91e9XhSINd+fE+gyKXlsBD9VOzQ dzD/JGKxwvIjKPA/kRexng4cyY/9Yn0SG5soyx4knYiuprSY56XNYc8y2VQ1daLtnwim rydUIECP42CF+34N+MFQJmDg+erjFooiRS1lw= Received: by 10.91.203.1 with SMTP id f1mr117737agq.0.1276884743028; Fri, 18 Jun 2010 11:12:23 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.205.32 with SMTP id fo32ls1040085ibb.2.p; Fri, 18 Jun 2010 11:12:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.158.73 with SMTP id e9mr1975985ibx.18.1276884742371; Fri, 18 Jun 2010 11:12:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.158.73 with SMTP id e9mr1975984ibx.18.1276884742307; Fri, 18 Jun 2010 11:12:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.121]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id cr37si6689628ibb.0.2010.06.18.11.12.21; Fri, 18 Jun 2010 11:12:21 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.121 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) client-ip=75.180.132.121; X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=8MuG1bpxLlSbaYWWtODGdBCK7StbFcRsMXhWm1NVx/I= c=1 sm=0 a=q8OS1GolVHwA:10 a=ORa4HqFjfvEA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=ITGCJgwGTuG7H/gKGaarIQ==:17 a=tbTYSA-Uz-8CHqEdZqEA:9 a=2IcPpsNUdVYvjIlBIlyYnS1btVIA:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=ITGCJgwGTuG7H/gKGaarIQ==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 71.71.198.100 Received: from [71.71.198.100] ([71.71.198.100:42689] helo=chausie) by cdptpa-oedge03.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.39 r()) with ESMTP id 7A/30-00502-407BB1C4; Fri, 18 Jun 2010 18:12:21 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06A8BE67D for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2010 14:12:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Chemical elements Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 14:12:11 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) References: <95822d48-fa69-4ee8-95af-ac8b356bb185@k39g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <201006181412.13008.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Original-Sender: phma@phma.optus.nu X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.121 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) smtp.mail=phma@phma.optus.nu Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline On Friday 18 June 2010 10:01:19 Daniel Brockman wrote: > This obscure naming exercise seems rather pointless to me. Which exercise? There have been several, and you didn't quote anything. > The priority should be to invent a way to talk about these atoms, > molecules, compounds, etc., using clear, compositional expressions. I agree. There are, though, some common, but complicated, molecules, such as porphyrin, the square chelating molecule common to heme, chlorophyll, and vitamin B12. > What are the basic brivla that we need to express these concepts? > > For example, is this a missing brivla? > > x1 is an atom with x2 protons and x3 neutrons {ratni} has the total number of nucleons in x3. One could make a lujvo. > This? > > x1 is a nucleus of atom x2 {ratmidju}, though jbovlaste currently has no better def than noralujv's for it. > Or this? > > x1 is an ion of atom x2 with x3 extra electrons {ionti} > What about this? > > x1 is a molecule consisting of atoms x2 Apparently missing. {xumsle} has the chemical in x2. > Or this? > > x1 is an alkane with x2 carbon atoms and shape x3 > > Or what about this one? > > x1 is a molecule consisting of x2 attached to hydrocarbon x3 at the > carbon atom in position x4 It's not just hydrocarbons that get things attached to their carbon atoms. Some molecules have carbon-and-nitrogen rings with side chains attached. Pierre -- .i toljundi do .ibabo mi'afra tu'a do .ibabo damba do .ibabo do jinga .icu'u la ma'atman. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.