From lojban+bncCMvjp-TQBRDi-e7gBBoEVMbd9A@googlegroups.com Fri Jun 18 11:37:43 2010 Received: from mail-gx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OPgRb-0008K4-LP; Fri, 18 Jun 2010 11:37:42 -0700 Received: by gxk2 with SMTP id 2sf1003000gxk.16 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2010 11:37:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:mime-version:received :in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=JF/kBa6gj20sSL1B9bWRjKPThvpObE55mCGkOuie6v0=; b=w1HgBrmBNyI9gC/5AheecioenhCTBjIiXTlIA2aRRqp3Ze+sCDKif4vRuSnNnqYwTj fRrXdw3QM3275cuhhPvc4s0jN32mNtJkIzkiiaS5YuoFQB+uFzNZta1cu/KkubdpXk43 QXvoZVf3XdCRjbmKpovPwa4K0iQ/IB3EIzTiI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Jz6qahj8dxRO0rqcxZOt77/XEIoz64N4QKsPVYADzWCHeiScA24w6j5UIx6PEDVrCj TSpdbqRhKwqYa6e/Vo0r0e7F9fz7nON/BFTp7DYZpZr5sW4eAf9CLP4P8MADVf8CGFT7 dXZwIHt8PdZ5Lh9bUrpOXGxCjjUCiDswzmwP4= Received: by 10.91.91.9 with SMTP id t9mr117158agl.53.1276886242748; Fri, 18 Jun 2010 11:37:22 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.90.233.16 with SMTP id f16ls166196agh.4.p; Fri, 18 Jun 2010 11:37:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.91.58.18 with SMTP id l18mr637242agk.1.1276886241782; Fri, 18 Jun 2010 11:37:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.91.58.18 with SMTP id l18mr637240agk.1.1276886241748; Fri, 18 Jun 2010 11:37:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gw0-f52.google.com (mail-gw0-f52.google.com [74.125.83.52]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 24si501028ywh.6.2010.06.18.11.37.20; Fri, 18 Jun 2010 11:37:20 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of dbrockman@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.52 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.83.52; Received: by gwj20 with SMTP id 20so1348706gwj.11 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2010 11:37:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.101.134.28 with SMTP id l28mr1262023ann.5.1276886240282; Fri, 18 Jun 2010 11:37:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.101.58.20 with HTTP; Fri, 18 Jun 2010 11:37:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201006181412.13008.phma@phma.optus.nu> References: <95822d48-fa69-4ee8-95af-ac8b356bb185@k39g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> <201006181412.13008.phma@phma.optus.nu> From: Daniel Brockman Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 20:37:00 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Chemical elements To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: dbrockman@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of dbrockman@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.52 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=dbrockman@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> This obscure naming exercise seems rather pointless to me. > > Which exercise? There have been several, and you didn't quote anything. All of them, I guess, then? >> The priority should be to invent a way to talk about these atoms, >> molecules, compounds, etc., using clear, compositional expressions. > > I agree. There are, though, some common, but complicated, molecules, such= as > porphyrin, the square chelating molecule common to heme, chlorophyll, and > vitamin B12. Yes, of course, those can get names. But what I saw (I didn't read the thread too carefully) was attempts to name particles _systematically_. >> What are the basic brivla that we need to express these concepts? >> >> For example, is this a missing brivla? >> >> =A0 =A0 x1 is an atom with x2 protons and x3 neutrons > > {ratni} has the total number of nucleons in x3. One could make a lujvo. Okay, I didn't realize that. That's fine, of course. Potato, potato. >> This? >> >> =A0 =A0 x1 is a nucleus of atom x2 > > {ratmidju}, though jbovlaste currently has no better def than noralujv's = for > it. OK. I'll fix it. >> Or this? >> >> =A0 =A0 x1 is an ion of atom x2 with x3 extra electrons > > {ionti} Nice! >> What about this? >> >> =A0 =A0 x1 is a molecule consisting of atoms x2 > > Apparently missing. {xumsle} has the chemical in x2. How about {ratni zei girzu}, {ratgri}? girzu: x1 is group/cluster/team showing common property x2 due to set x3 linked by relations x4. ratgri: x1=3Dg1 is a molecule consisting of atoms x2=3Dg3=3Dr1 with form x3=3Dg4 and properties x4=3Dg2 Sound good? >> Or this? >> >> =A0 =A0 x1 is an alkane with x2 carbon atoms and shape x3 Do you think this one is a good idea? >> Or what about this one? >> >> =A0 =A0 x1 is a molecule consisting of x2 attached to hydrocarbon x3 at = the >> =A0 =A0 carbon atom in position x4 > > It's not just hydrocarbons that get things attached to their carbon atoms= . > Some molecules have carbon-and-nitrogen rings with side chains attached. Okay, so do you have any other idea? x1 is a molecule consisting of x2 attached to x3 at a locus symbolized by x4 (usually a numerical index) Would that be a useful building block? --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.