From lojban+bncCMvjp-TQBRDEju_gBBoEJvjs2w@googlegroups.com Fri Jun 18 12:22:09 2010 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OPh8T-0001T4-Cg; Fri, 18 Jun 2010 12:22:09 -0700 Received: by gyd5 with SMTP id 5sf14716541gyd.16 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2010 12:21:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:mime-version:received:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=ISYnpX7fcIMTu6Hrc9EE+HjSHf9tHgbDu1qAeWSOr5c=; b=1jUmZvHxaS72MkAqWWRT7GuEpvi85CPc4iWhRWiZP4e4oRs+NErdRQewqK+FdRX4Cj vFJlyQqN9QZ37wfuuxjtypTPJhL4ThJ/iQFV7qschlUffxDACals9Fe07ZGvAOvHWALQ VFclWNQWKZSH0aER3QJ7ZCBtgaJXCNbw2Kw8A= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject :to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=Rod3vvQFkrQNA7g+PT8Ei8RXBN9vi4cEH3u413eNb9OQ/8IUiQPOQ9Pj0BHam3FTNZ xOg7j/BKbb6SWI8BkXRFcwpgrcEMBu9LYiukD3do6ZW05zfLD6sRuSFY28hgfJWfJrcp NtXD8Zp+fAH6eRKJtC0Fv4iOCQcliYxI9x5Yo= Received: by 10.100.53.36 with SMTP id b36mr178324ana.7.1276888901000; Fri, 18 Jun 2010 12:21:41 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.150.242.38 with SMTP id p38ls1290384ybh.6.p; Fri, 18 Jun 2010 12:21:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.151.16.19 with SMTP id t19mr950896ybi.6.1276888900397; Fri, 18 Jun 2010 12:21:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.151.16.19 with SMTP id t19mr950895ybi.6.1276888900371; Fri, 18 Jun 2010 12:21:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gx0-f179.google.com (mail-gx0-f179.google.com [209.85.161.179]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id p23si9069968ybc.8.2010.06.18.12.21.39; Fri, 18 Jun 2010 12:21:39 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of dbrockman@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.179 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.179; Received: by gxk5 with SMTP id 5so770915gxk.38 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2010 12:21:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.101.3.7 with SMTP id f7mr1290736ani.74.1276888899181; Fri, 18 Jun 2010 12:21:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.101.58.20 with HTTP; Fri, 18 Jun 2010 12:21:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Daniel Brockman Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 21:21:19 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: [lojban] The place structure of {selma'o} To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: dbrockman@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of dbrockman@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.179 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=dbrockman@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam_score: 0.8 X-Spam_score_int: 8 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: Spam detection software, running on the system "chain.digitalkingdom.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: The term "selma'o" (in both English and Lojban) actually has very little to do with cmavo. It's used for any word, and we have selma'o like CMENE and BRIVLA. Remarkably, {selma'o} doesn't even have a proper definition in jbovlaste. I propose the following place structure: [...] Content analysis details: (0.8 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is freemail (dbrockman[at]gmail.com) 0.0 DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED No valid author signature, adsp_override is CUSTOM_MED -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 2.7 FRT_ROLEX BODY: ReplaceTags: Rolex -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature 0.0 T_TO_NO_BRKTS_FREEMAIL T_TO_NO_BRKTS_FREEMAIL The term "selma'o" (in both English and Lojban) actually has very little to do with cmavo. It's used for any word, and we have selma'o like CMENE and BRIVLA. Remarkably, {selma'o} doesn't even have a proper definition in jbovlaste. I propose the following place structure: selma'o: x1=c2 is the grammatical class of the word x2=c1 with role x3=c3 in language x4=c4. Note that I have dropped the reference to cmavo, and adapted the meaning of the x3 to be the role of the selma'o rather than the meaning of the word. I like this for several reasons, the biggest one of course being that it causes the word {selma'o} to make sense and be useful and intuitive. I also like the fact that this definition makes {selma'o} != {se cmavo} (though they would still share their x1s). This sets a precedent that should discourage people from creating nonce lujvo with -sel- that are completely superflous to the {se} compound, which is just a bad habit anyway in a language that is supposed to be inflectionless. (Are there any precedents for {selbroda} != {se broda} already?) An interesting expression is {lo se selma'o be zo ui}, by the way, which with this definition would be a precise way to say "the words of selma'o UI". (Right now, this is usually expressed using {la'e}: {lo cmavo be la'e zo ui}.) Thoughts? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.