From lojban+bncCIXohuTaHxCO4ffhBBoE74hb9g@googlegroups.com Wed Jul 14 10:15:19 2010 Received: from mail-gx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OZ5Y6-0005mg-GS; Wed, 14 Jul 2010 10:15:18 -0700 Received: by gxk22 with SMTP id 22sf13914191gxk.16 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2010 10:15:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=jBFaHP0KpvqBDuDPQ2rvWkSeSXQWOtsU/flZv/wPAwU=; b=nlPFEwpo31T0fLwtABz/7i2CDHbLYc3nHde98h8BdNjA9l/sae3M8bsuUM4ke+MYMh MKs3jQw+XwOdfA/5yDTywX33/onwNoX0dXUSag8DFR4FjlC58TH4Pf2ciTBEo7vHsd77 bXNgkAkUR183OuvltLNYk9amaHmpT7c249JJ4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=o9kroW3xOgZDVEPCQTUy3LKcdbejYQJ22j7IQKbeB9uwzpvjFcOcNB9AyL+jj394u9 Wg+2byTc0mv3YO9ibIQR20QGe4+ZwVron0bO+wQeRHwCeybbS26Zk0+5hU4yv151+OZ6 a7x71oWtK9zTW8PKnIzc0UZRYqIFah9opUnKg= Received: by 10.101.151.9 with SMTP id d9mr191799ano.52.1279127694386; Wed, 14 Jul 2010 10:14:54 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.151.127.4 with SMTP id e4ls2198708ybn.7.p; Wed, 14 Jul 2010 10:14:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.229.11 with SMTP id b11mr5839774ybh.28.1279127693537; Wed, 14 Jul 2010 10:14:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.229.11 with SMTP id b11mr5839771ybh.28.1279127693489; Wed, 14 Jul 2010 10:14:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gy0-f174.google.com (mail-gy0-f174.google.com [209.85.160.174]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id q26si63475ybk.2.2010.07.14.10.14.52; Wed, 14 Jul 2010 10:14:52 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of matt.mattarn@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.174 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.160.174; Received: by mail-gy0-f174.google.com with SMTP id 4so1497901gyh.33 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2010 10:14:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.150.227.14 with SMTP id z14mr9514582ybg.359.1279127692104; Wed, 14 Jul 2010 10:14:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.151.100.3 with HTTP; Wed, 14 Jul 2010 10:14:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <3c4ace6b-a18e-4306-a2b1-8cef523e20f3@u36g2000prg.googlegroups.com> <9d57e48d-49c3-49e0-8a4b-a860bf3a47cc@k14g2000pro.googlegroups.com> <4F9DFCBA-A9F2-445C-AA6C-D15B3CDE1BAD@cosmicray.co.uk> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 13:14:51 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Lojban Kids Show From: Matt Arnold To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: matt.mattarn@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of matt.mattarn@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.174 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=matt.mattarn@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The issue with the Maya/StudioMax/Blender option is rendering time. Only one student at my community college has ever rendered out an animated short film, because it monopolized two whole computer labs running around the clock for almost two weeks. I have considered running Blender under Linux using the Amazon cloud, but that is likely to get expensive. Personally, I support the idea of an intermediate approach. We model only the sets and motionless props in Wings/Blender/Sculptris. Then we position the camera to render one frame in cel-shaded style, per each scene of the film. Autotrace that in Adobe Illustrator. Import that into Flash/ToonBoom/KToon. This is a quick way to generate consistent backgrounds. Then we animate the characters and moving things in Flash/ToonBoom/KToon. I agree that we can, and should, export our final Flash animations as YouTube videos. "Flash the format" is not the same as "Flash the animation tool". However, we may consider ToonBoom Studio instead of Flash, as it is a dramatically superior vector-based animation environment. I haven't tried the free/open source alternative in this space yet (KToon), so you may wish to explore KToon and see if it makes you want to gauge out your eyes. What I did before discovering ToonBoom was animate in Adobe Illustrator, because it's an awesome drawing tool. Flash is so terrible for drawing, on par with Inkscape, that it is completely prohibitive. I draw the character in Illustrator, duplicate the layer, make a change, duplicate the layer, make a change, etc. Then I import that document into Flash using the "convert layers to frames" feature. That's how I made the elements in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DG6xTujaVkzQ I'm very excited about this project! I hope you don't mind, however, if my current education in animation keeps me busy and temporarily limits my involvement. -Eppcott On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 10:41 AM, CosmicRay wrote: > Actually I agree with those several people, Flash as a proprietary format= is a really bad medium. =A0Luckily that doesn't stop us using it as Flash = the tool and then exporting the results into one or more proper video forma= ts - the video output may grow by quite a degree but at least it could be p= layable anywhere. > > Or, how about it's put together through motion capture and rendered in 3D= with Blender + a mix of royalty-free and community-grown 3D models - Matt = A must have some pretty good advice in this area? > > Sorry I had to cut my last message short regarding the storyline, here's = my take on adding some kid-friendly pizazz: > > ----- > First episode: > > Boy flying through clouds with a giant cartoon moose next to him, his arm= s outstretched, heading for a tropical island, "Wheeeee!" > > Moose shouts to boy, "we're almost there," whizzing in circles around the= boy, "we're nearly at jbogu'e!" > > Scene cuts to close up of boy's face, eyes closed, big grin, shot zooms o= ut showing he's actually in a plane seat next to his stuffed moose toy. > > Boy opens his eyes and excitedly sits up to look out of the window, "I ca= n't believe we're finally going, Chocolate!" > > (Continues with previous monologue, spoken aloud): =A0"I've been pen-pals= with somebody in jbogu'e for a few years now, and we're finally going to m= eet. =A0I started a programme for studying abroad and naturally chose jbogu= 'e for my schooling. It's a little island somewhere out in the Pacific that= was colonised a long time ago by a lot of different people from different = countries." =A0Overlay of a picture book with pages turning, showing some o= f the history, original flags and dress, and exciting customs of the native= s. > > "Hey, let's play a game!" says the boy, closing his eyes again. =A0Scene = switches to boy and giant cartoon moose, with an array of objects around th= em. =A0"Let's practice naming things in Lojban!" > > Boy and Chocolate take turns pointing at objects, and for each there's a = little cut scene showing the object in its normal use, and the name said by= the boy or moose. =A0For some, the boy can be a little unsure, and Chocola= te helps. =A0Immediately after each name is said, its written name is shown= as a subtitle and then it's said again, deliberately and clearly. > > Scene changes to the plane landing, and the protagonist collecting his th= ings. =A0"Just look at this place," says the boy in awe, his face against t= he glass at the airport arrivals terminal. =A0Shot pans across jbogu'e and = its busy populace (details to be filled in). > > End of episode > ----- > > The second episode, meeting the family at the airport and the journey to = their dwelling, can focus on pronunciation and sumti-selbri relations. > > The third can be the start of exploring jbogu'e, more vocabulary, and som= e complete phrases. > > Kids really need to be excited about what might *happen* in the next epis= ode (and even the next scene), so best to keep the tempo of scene changes r= elatively high whilst breaking down the learning into small digestible sect= ions, such that it is almost transparent to the plot. =A0As for the plot it= self, go crazy, kids identify with creative and imagination-stimulating mat= erial, but don't make any cliff hangers *too* blatant or extreme. > > Just my 2p, > > kozmikreis > > > > > > On 9 Jul 2010, at 23:24, Lindar wrote: > >> Several people have expressed that Flash is a really bad medium (for >> whatever reason). >> Personally I don't see how it's feasible to do it in anything -but- >> flash considering how small of a crew we'd have. >> I mean, we could individually animate each frame for all two dozen >> frames a second and then drop that into Avid/Final Cut, but forget >> that. >> I'm not sure what's going to be done with the animation, but for now >> we're going to (once we actually get to this part) storyboard the >> first episode in Photoshop, then do an audio-and-keyframe animation >> using the storyboard illustrations as keyframes. Once we're happy with >> that, we'll start actual animation. >> >> Thank you for the suggestion, and I will keep in mind that it needs to >> be punched up. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googleg= roups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/loj= ban?hl=3Den. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an?hl=3Den. > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.