From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBCB9YLiBBoEsydIyQ@googlegroups.com Fri Jul 16 13:01:29 2010 Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OZr64-0006U4-D0; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 13:01:28 -0700 Received: by qyk30 with SMTP id 30sf441322qyk.16 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 13:01:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=xdteP34JDy/7Y54ePgRmxsRHFARS4KShI9O7DGzBYHU=; b=bZOlz/KlSFBnx0X4q3VZEq4O+IoB7Pk6AHGS+4aSVrJ5DjqW8KRrqDDgbFmDzb15pQ KkH0jHYLjDNpFhr0QVXQLSvsYbhR348iy4TsThiYj7/QpEtokyhD3F7RmBiB215iip9U 4Hxvhn0uxChNGufFgqtqgreDjXQVa0Avx0m9w= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=gNJtbWD6FK32tmGVjOSElyuVXBo/FB35bHDB+jGUYHZtcxaKbJHh0CA8OordjoPQSj 0kKPjpl2Ce018X3XSAFU69v3qULqgxUlKqnu9lj38U6nAxjEwngUbfl0DNjUrzR8BqOG NOriCYFe5aBz4e82JWCQ0nci/JiFla1nosbYg= Received: by 10.224.21.33 with SMTP id h33mr245969qab.28.1279310465962; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 13:01:05 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.224.66.218 with SMTP id o26ls1402964qai.3.p; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 13:01:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.11.2 with SMTP id r2mr211996qar.19.1279310465038; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 13:01:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.11.2 with SMTP id r2mr211995qar.19.1279310464977; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 13:01:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f44.google.com (mail-vw0-f44.google.com [209.85.212.44]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id q8si1573163qcu.4.2010.07.16.13.01.03; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 13:01:03 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.44 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.44; Received: by vws14 with SMTP id 14so3098745vws.31 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 13:01:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.159.14 with SMTP id h14mr847216vcx.115.1279310461598; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 13:01:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.76.204 with HTTP; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 13:01:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 16:01:01 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Connective question From: Luke Bergen To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.44 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001485e5c09c9efd42048b86ad84 --001485e5c09c9efd42048b86ad84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You have never partaken of the orgasm-inducing desert known as the lemon bar?! They are the best desert dish ever concocted by humanity. Look at the pictures in this blog post and tell me honestly that you did not have a= n orgasmic reaction: http://adameyvtade.blogspot.com/2010/05/lemon-bars.html And yes, I'm always getting jukpa and kukte confused for some reason. Though I suppose seljukpa could have worked just as well. So, xorxes, your construction with {fa'u}... does that ultimately result in two sumti that are filling the same terbri? Because that's really what I'm trying to get at. Some way of externalizing a piece of a tanru so that it can be absorbed into two sumti (which are incidentally connected via .e). 2010/7/16 Jorge Llamb=EDas > On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Luke Bergen > wrote: > > So if I want to say "my wife made lemon and lime bars" (where I mean to > say > > that she made lemon bars and lime bars) is it possible to say this in > lojban > > without repeating the "bar" part? > > You could use "fa'u": > > lo speni be mi cu zbasu lo pelnimre fa'u ri'ornimre nanba > > (I don't know what a lemmon bar is, I'm assuming some kind of cake.) > > > As a more practical example.... can the following be shortened so that = I > > don't have to repeat all the common words? > > > > mi citka lo crino je jukpa je cmalu je cinri je cukla je titla cidja .e > lo > > pelxu je jukpa je cmalu je cinri je cukla je titla cidja > > Is the interesting circular sweet little green cook the maker or the > ingredient of the food that you like? :) > > > I imagine there must be a way of doing this with variable assignment > sorts > > of constructs but I was hoping that there might be a way with pure > > connectives. > > There is no rigorous transformation of pure logical connectives (such > as ".e") into tanru connectives. The internals of tanru are not really > part of pure predicate logic. > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --001485e5c09c9efd42048b86ad84 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You have never partaken of the orgasm-inducing desert known as the lemon ba= r?! =A0They are the best desert dish ever concocted by humanity. =A0Look at= the pictures in this blog post and tell me honestly that you did not have = an orgasmic reaction:=A0http://adameyvtade.blogspot.com/2010/05/lemon-bars.html

And yes, I'm always getting jukpa and kukte confused for= some reason. =A0Though I suppose seljukpa could have worked just as well.<= /div>

So, xorxes, your construction with {fa'u}... d= oes that ultimately result in two sumti that are filling the same terbri? = =A0Because that's really what I'm trying to get at. =A0Some way of = externalizing a piece of a tanru so that it can be absorbed into two sumti = (which are incidentally connected via .e).

2010/7/16 Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>
On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
> So if I want to say "my wife made lemon and lime bars" (wher= e I mean to say
> that she made lemon bars and lime bars) is it possible to say this in = lojban
> without repeating the "bar" part?

You could use "fa'u":

=A0lo speni be mi cu zbasu lo pelnimre fa'u ri'ornimre nanba

(I don't know what a lemmon bar is, I'm assuming some kind of cake.= )

> As a more practical example.... can the following be shortened so that= I
> don't have to repeat all the common words?
>
> mi citka lo crino je jukpa je cmalu je cinri je cukla je titla cidja .= e lo
> pelxu=A0je jukpa je cmalu je cinri je cukla je titla cidja

Is the interesting circular sweet little green cook the maker or the<= br> ingredient of the food that you like? :)

> I imagine there must be a way of doing this with variable assignment s= orts
> of constructs but I was hoping that there might be a way with pure
> connectives.

There is no rigorous transformation of pure logical connectives (such=
as ".e") into tanru connectives. The internals of tanru are not r= eally
part of pure predicate logic.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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