From lojban+bncCNTPpI2KGxCI2oniBBoEnlJFJQ@googlegroups.com Sat Jul 17 19:55:36 2010 Received: from mail-gx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OaK2A-0006Jh-PN; Sat, 17 Jul 2010 19:55:36 -0700 Received: by gxk22 with SMTP id 22sf6842763gxk.16 for ; Sat, 17 Jul 2010 19:55:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:received:received:from:to:subject:date:user-agent :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; bh=nqBQs9NI+S+xm38UsSQtREYXYQC+usotojzJfU/TuTw=; b=6cwK1ZXIFLhad83wDOsVze352PmehU63I0zHd+XkjKS6xQgmIdXKg0T1HddGGxE0lY dpBjNcgxky7nga74/7hRpgIMgxHRorcW3mBNiBaWzCSiHFsrDF8qgHlFt/zbXHN5D7yd dVvKAQgndaJY9NcNLVqH3cW1DmBH3mCmY++hk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references :in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; b=Y7vPRz7uj7KZeB6eLW2YQgDXtt3k55wLnIeTlVJI5vE6ZOfVVcGqh91zjl3+i6Mcmo uCltcjQ6ydq3+yOX1cPHwNrIS342WSofl2yG/uDAvIpAkVyybDBhHyemPdDMKmuUZgbC lVEhq9/4vSyFwDF1xjoaZ8UO7bWGj7yb7buSE= Received: by 10.90.52.1 with SMTP id z1mr625128agz.21.1279421704147; Sat, 17 Jul 2010 19:55:04 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.125.29 with SMTP id w29ls2983475ibr.0.p; Sat, 17 Jul 2010 19:55:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.35.70 with SMTP id o6mr507281ibd.3.1279421703548; Sat, 17 Jul 2010 19:55:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.35.70 with SMTP id o6mr507280ibd.3.1279421703524; Sat, 17 Jul 2010 19:55:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.121]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id db12si2795878ibb.1.2010.07.17.19.55.02; Sat, 17 Jul 2010 19:55:03 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.121 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) client-ip=75.180.132.121; X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=MHzvBQPmOFwA:10 a=ORa4HqFjfvEA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=RJO2hL38GO_Bik6u2k4A:9 a=JeE9Tipun3o8ptidjk4-qLBu2XcA:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=W8lg9CmgcQFV9Gzg:21 a=CZTnjOex6KbXInMR:21 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 71.71.198.100 Received: from [71.71.198.100] ([71.71.198.100:37085] helo=chausie) by cdptpa-oedge01.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.39 r()) with ESMTP id A6/78-04655-60D624C4; Sun, 18 Jul 2010 02:55:02 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C4AA13FCD for ; Sat, 17 Jul 2010 22:55:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Lojban Kids Show Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 22:54:58 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) References: <3c4ace6b-a18e-4306-a2b1-8cef523e20f3@u36g2000prg.googlegroups.com> <201007172044.23358.phma@phma.optus.nu> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <201007172254.59861.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Original-Sender: phma@phma.optus.nu X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.121 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) smtp.mail=phma@phma.optus.nu Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline On Saturday 17 July 2010 21:24:55 CosmicRay wrote: > How many people would be needed to safely "seed" that number of descendants > without the associated problems that a genetic bottleneck can produce? How > long, assuming that the population wasn't added to by additional colonisers > from Earth (or the net difference between joiners and leavers is zero), for > the colony to naturally attain that number? > > Essentially I'm wondering if the station was there right now with that > number of people, when was it founded and with how many people? I checked [[Minimum viable population]]. There is no MVP given for humans, but the smallest figure is 500 (except for the Laysan Duck which had an effective population size of 7 once). To avoid founder effects, they should be from all over the world. To grow from 500 to 200k at the maximum worldwide growth rate of 2.2% would take 275 years. Pierre -- li ze te'a ci vu'u ci bi'e te'a mu du li ci su'i ze te'a mu bi'e vu'u ci -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.