From lojban+bncCIfx8JOUAxCVkZDiBBoEGqw9vA@googlegroups.com Mon Jul 19 01:11:32 2010 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OalRU-0000BM-5R; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 01:11:32 -0700 Received: by wyf22 with SMTP id 22sf1025092wyf.16 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 01:11:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:x-virus-scanned:received:received :message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=fJv5iCLbxLLkjT16SmGL9N6GL4yLlwdR8sELmD/Fqko=; b=hz4jz2g9zB3D8WGu2wwKulHlUlbBBrg6PxNFKA2uSkvXpFUy+dOeUUxMyZ8AMRxdBj ZjQN2eBO32NPujx8Qke3LFF6+ajZkW9WbqtDhojRiTtbPd3ZZ8meE8r78Gunkx93AD+r S0fSaWb1TxtgjNtH7++siudNm6F3Jg5Sr75FY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-virus-scanned:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=dbz9dIjYd1Dx1dfMyqeEVGM5rdj+fQQH48E4l8ezsKmaBUEqYOYYNSIVD1j45cNP9m gntJypTi9bVZDa/WxdKy73fvoe4N1bNP+NJ3hXqr1XxKCuZoZi8egPTxEBkUF6LAColR KD0puZJTuvBhdl/bZVMX47m06STlyLce2fL+Q= Received: by 10.216.145.226 with SMTP id p76mr422564wej.3.1279527061533; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 01:11:01 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.213.80.11 with SMTP id r11ls2604102ebk.3.p; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 01:10:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.108.69 with SMTP id e5mr316947ebp.12.1279527059267; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 01:10:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.108.69 with SMTP id e5mr316946ebp.12.1279527059249; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 01:10:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.wouldyoubuythis.net (mail.wybt.net [195.191.196.3]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id b5si6028631eei.0.2010.07.19.01.10.59; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 01:10:59 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 195.191.196.3 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of timonator@perpetuum-immobile.de) client-ip=195.191.196.3; Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wouldyoubuythis.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0844048928 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 10:10:16 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mail.wybt.net Received: from mail.wouldyoubuythis.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.wybt.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8g+CpbU84Khj for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 10:10:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.178.94] (HSI-KBW-078-042-025-249.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de [78.42.25.249]) by mail.wouldyoubuythis.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2FA85488FF for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 10:10:15 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4C440884.5080805@perpetuum-immobile.de> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 10:10:44 +0200 From: Timo Paulssen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.1.10) Gecko/20100620 Icedove/3.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Lojban Kids Show - internet stuff References: <3c4ace6b-a18e-4306-a2b1-8cef523e20f3@u36g2000prg.googlegroups.com> <0ea116b6-80d3-498e-a6c8-80377826906f@z34g2000pro.googlegroups.com> <201007190010.57987.phma@phma.optus.nu> In-Reply-To: <201007190010.57987.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Original-Sender: timonator@perpetuum-immobile.de X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 195.191.196.3 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of timonator@perpetuum-immobile.de) smtp.mail=timonator@perpetuum-immobile.de Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On 07/19/2010 06:10 AM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > It should be easy to wire the whole town for Internet. Communicating > with Earth, though, presents a problem. The station is 150 Gm from > Earth (it's at the Sun-Earth L4 or L5 point, right?), so it takes 500 > seconds to send a message to Earth, and 500 seconds for the reply to > come back. This means just sending an email (assuming the server > doesn't send any command until it has received the reply to the > previous one) takes 108 minutes! (not counting tearing down the > connection) If you're in the space station, browsing a site on the > Earth, and your browser keeps the connection open, you click a link, > and almost 17 minutes later the page comes up. There are at least > three Earth stations for communicating with the space station. Well, I don't think you'd still be using basic TCP/IPv6 for space station/earth communication. In my imagination, your protocol would foresee an "answers cached" system where you'd push your request header and the request body and at the same time a bunch of anti-fail-measurements - I'd say bandwidth is cheap. I imagine it like this: Packet 1 tube -> earth to: http server at lojban.org SHTTP auth username salt password (authenticate with username and salted password hash) on auth success: SHTTP GET / RANGE 3 (get the index at "/" and everything that doesn't depend on interaction) on auth failure: SHTTP drop_auth (ignore authentication) SHTTP GET / RANGE 3 This might work to reduce many of the effects of the lag. Since this protocol entirely drops the need for a three-way-handshake prior to sending any data. This means, that the whole request for the first 3 depth levels of lojban.org with authentication would reach the server in 9 minutes. 9 minutes later the reply would arrive, showing what happened/went wrong. It will contain quite a bit of data, so you can entertain yourself with lots of stuff ;) Alternatively, the web application might have previously announced all their services ("edit wiki page", "register new user") towards the space station, so that some server on the space station (disk is cheap, as is bandwidth!) has lots of forms and shit cached, so that you can register a new user on the lojban wiki with one request of 9mins and then waiting for a reply for 9 minutes. Of course this is just a very rough sketch and I'm still half-asleep, but I think it's not that far off from what could, one day, be used for this purpose. But until then - who knows! - maybe the antique WWW has already been replaced by something more sensible. > Pierre - Timo -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. 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