From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBDix57iBBoEqFExXg@googlegroups.com Wed Jul 21 18:50:58 2010 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Obkvp-0000Kj-UB; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 18:50:58 -0700 Received: by gyb13 with SMTP id 13sf535998gyb.16 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 18:50:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=pQ8pVQnwYqsHbNxC7xizXw01Ci6OiemzZa6wtqu9IMw=; b=O5d6We689D4FBA1TkHWOEanYeDD0UN+ktNYBe1bOFMC95DiqZle9jxNY/34gb3I1Gq R1dQlsUuhK9F39MGb0N/DNYLa1Q2YA67LZ0L+C8oPjnJFhX9HARMbMFo7UAYdLJtz0ER 3dvm5lvBIo3mqLxVcJ03FtP+7DLVY0FAesTxA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=X5pGu1KUlQXSg+7mWHot2AlHBzkAfY6F9pgjOrpXPtftzvr4mq+stcFpCDKWZwBfNE NY00oE/vMLUISr4wxeLPc429MEVCTRtRPzNhNaZSJo17mjrjGmDOKu62To6fYR0BDotk 75dZcsi5IYS84EQArPLVWY8RrSOz6SbjSrQLA= Received: by 10.101.139.19 with SMTP id r19mr109652ann.75.1279763426346; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 18:50:26 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.101.146.2 with SMTP id y2ls2248464ann.6.p; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 18:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.50.10 with SMTP id x10mr645659anx.39.1279763425220; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 18:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.50.10 with SMTP id x10mr645658anx.39.1279763425142; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 18:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gx0-f181.google.com (mail-gx0-f181.google.com [209.85.161.181]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id u18si10362906anf.10.2010.07.21.18.50.24; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 18:50:24 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.181 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.181; Received: by gxk28 with SMTP id 28so5746903gxk.40 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 18:50:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.88.84 with SMTP id z20mr484137vcl.92.1279763423823; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 18:50:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.76.204 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 18:50:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7b92a1a6-95b3-4b00-a0d2-c54a0cb0f641@q16g2000prf.googlegroups.com> References: <3c4ace6b-a18e-4306-a2b1-8cef523e20f3@u36g2000prg.googlegroups.com> <201007202235.57096.phma@phma.optus.nu> <201007210031.43593.phma@phma.optus.nu> <731b09ce-f090-44b8-b717-53d4030cfab9@p22g2000pre.googlegroups.com> <20692153-4340-43CB-BD05-E51D4A1373F6@cosmicray.co.uk> <0da22913-44b7-4f02-bf14-1e97d2dab3b7@z30g2000prg.googlegroups.com> <7b92a1a6-95b3-4b00-a0d2-c54a0cb0f641@q16g2000prf.googlegroups.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 21:50:23 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Lojban Kids Show - names From: Luke Bergen To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.181 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6441efe4606d7048bf02489 --0016e6441efe4606d7048bf02489 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 holy crap, yeah, I was making a joke. naturally a "female lad" is an impossible thing since "lad" means "male child". Why is space a masculine thing? I know one of lojban's things is "neutrality" but sometimes it seems like we work really really hard to counter-act against bias. At what point are we spending an un-balanced amount of time worrying about balance? Sometimes I think that as a culture we worry too much about these things and we end up over-thinking things. I was reading one of those dear-abbey style columns the other day and a mother was concerned because her young boy was calling her by her name instead of "mom". A long drawn out speculation ensues by the mother about how the parents are a mixed ethnicity couple and maybe the kid is experiencing confusion [etc...]. In reality the kid probably saw an episode of the simpsons and thought that it was funny when bart called his dad by his first name. On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 8:40 PM, Lindar wrote: > Also voiced by a female. Most young male characters are voiced by > adult women. It's only a few masculine characters that are voiced by > men. The "lad" thing was a typo (I'm on my phone), by the way. There > is no sexism going on. The temporary names are what they are because > Alpha is the lead character, not because he's more important. Beta has > a more important role in that she's the viewer's guide on social > norms, customs, traditions, and helping the male lead develop his > social skills. She'll be demonstrating a lot more interpersonal roles > and more proficiency in the language, and may even have her own > episodes at times. Obviously space is a masculine thing and there's a > masculine lead, so we're compensating by having a female character who > is, in essence, the smarter one. This gender imbalance panders to > empathetic femae audiences because she is "better" than Alpha in many > ways. We're riding a fine line, and I think that we've found a happy > medium to pander to all parties. Wait until we have a pilot. (more) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0016e6441efe4606d7048bf02489 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable holy crap, yeah, I was making a joke. =A0naturally a "female lad"= is an impossible thing since "lad" means "male child".=

Why is space a masculine thing?

I know one of lojban's things is "neutrality" but sometimes i= t seems like we work really really hard to counter-act against bias. =A0At = what point are we spending an un-balanced amount of time worrying about bal= ance?

Sometimes I think that as a culture we worry too much a= bout these things and we end up over-thinking things. =A0I was reading one = of those dear-abbey style columns the other day and a mother was concerned = because her young boy was calling her by her name instead of "mom"= ;. =A0A long drawn out speculation ensues by the mother about how the paren= ts are a mixed ethnicity couple and maybe the kid is experiencing confusion= [etc...]. =A0In reality the kid probably saw an episode of the simpsons an= d thought that it was funny when bart called his dad by his first name.
</rant>

On Wed, Jul 21,= 2010 at 8:40 PM, Lindar <lindarthebard@yahoo.com> wrote:
Also voiced by a female. Most young male characters are voiced by
adult women. It's only a few masculine characters that are voiced by men. The "lad" thing was a typo (I'm on my phone), by the way= . There
is no sexism going on. The temporary names are what they are because
Alpha is the lead character, not because he's more important. Beta has<= br> a more important role in that she's the viewer's guide on social norms, customs, traditions, and helping the male lead develop his
social skills. She'll be demonstrating a lot more interpersonal roles and more proficiency in the language, and may even have her own
episodes at times. Obviously space is a masculine thing and there's a masculine lead, so we're compensating by having a female character who<= br> is, in essence, the smarter one. This gender imbalance panders to
empathetic femae audiences because she is "better" than Alpha in = many
ways. We're riding a fine line, and I think that we've found a happ= y
medium to pander to all parties. Wait until we have a pilot. (more)

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