From lojban+bncCKi12tLPFBD376DiBBoEeDTPig@googlegroups.com Thu Jul 22 05:22:41 2010 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1ObunH-0008Pe-Sn; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 05:22:40 -0700 Received: by wwi18 with SMTP id 18sf456387wwi.16 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 05:22:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:subject:references:from:x-mailer :in-reply-to:message-id:date:to:mime-version:x-provags-id :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=/6jVMg7FLD6Sf15IeDBVM/VrkTgQ0dU0Zgsj57ojCys=; b=lmVmZQGC8Bk80zWMXeO036YWuAp0HTQ51J1Y/aDsA2OgxmXul7xvlG979paFKoalXX IfSBvLeD0pu/Z6X8gp6vYDTKCgQboJ0GJLHthnW6BvbBxW+PkQNGL6py3um0ssoyfN3N LTVN4lnjxpyv+mZUS/6aWGBc9SnRDTIC8FeTY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:subject:references:from:x-mailer :in-reply-to:message-id:date:to:mime-version:x-provags-id :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=xpE7C2DrYQjl++hnFIEs5zESx2m5EFR2KOhjMMuyvDqQLmjnGYa+Fr5C4+JFKQ9t6Q yiNoesUnlcaHGn7bAoYERMb5rKiXGMuOdYYbkZcOwBznAb+BgpH7C4/PeIXcxVBAlzBR W/ckPG9K3IWS6Z92Q5Y/q4JucszSdXek1woM4= Received: by 10.216.144.25 with SMTP id m25mr209794wej.9.1279801335594; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 05:22:15 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.216.237.165 with SMTP id y37ls2141305weq.1.p; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 05:22:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.188.196 with SMTP id a46mr131598wen.9.1279801333595; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 05:22:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.188.196 with SMTP id a46mr131596wen.9.1279801333245; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 05:22:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.17.9]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id s70si2061811weq.13.2010.07.22.05.22.13; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 05:22:13 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 212.227.17.9 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of cr@cosmicray.co.uk) client-ip=212.227.17.9; Received: from [10.17.221.167] ([82.132.139.132]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrbap1) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0LnDqv-1PEoJI43FF-00hw8G; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:22:05 +0200 Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Lojban Kids Show - location References: <3c4ace6b-a18e-4306-a2b1-8cef523e20f3@u36g2000prg.googlegroups.com> <201007212131.13536.phma@phma.optus.nu> From: CosmicRay X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (8A306) In-Reply-To: <201007212131.13536.phma@phma.optus.nu> Message-Id: <76704117-8645-4053-A5DA-B4A2C77A11F6@cosmicray.co.uk> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:22:09 +0100 To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPhone Mail 8A306) X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:uP0K/dO6cK+SYDe1Xr1MeWHrjJK5o0pDlXWSrDj0eWp X6z72zCS+ypO33jYPuY68guGOhHgXIZJM6Md1zGL1tv4SAeTqO bliN8mvEHjC4Cm4VjLRNr6AD7Qyp8NZhKnUqVh5hBExgtTPvzD EfPOxRAB9xut18WOzWkhFJyso24GSTok+XRBeXypSqQQe6HkZE jB5+dzRJpHwlB12o4V8Ywlj/ccq702o60NALyvD6U8= X-Original-Sender: cr@cosmicray.co.uk X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 212.227.17.9 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of cr@cosmicray.co.uk) smtp.mail=cr@cosmicray.co.uk Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam_score: 0.8 X-Spam_score_int: 8 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: Spam detection software, running on the system "chain.digitalkingdom.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: OK we've had two compelling votes to place Lojgugde at Earth-Moon L4/L5, which for all practical reasons are ideal. Can anyone tell me how frequently and for how long Lojgugde at one of these points may be in Earth's or the Moon's shadow? The Moon's orbital period is ~27 days and is off Earth's equatorial axis by ~5°. [...] Content analysis details: (0.8 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.8 BAYES_50 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 40 to 60% [score: 0.4498] 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature OK we've had two compelling votes to place Lojgugde at Earth-Moon L4/L5, wh= ich for all practical reasons are ideal. Can anyone tell me how frequently= and for how long Lojgugde at one of these points may be in Earth's or the = Moon's shadow? The Moon's orbital period is ~27 days and is off Earth's eq= uatorial axis by ~5=B0. From the story's perspective it's less ideal; placing the station at those = points would make it visible to the naked eye at certain times. When the s= tation is just past parallel to, through to behind the Earth (relative to t= he Sun) and back again, the spinning mirrors would glint, causing a pinpoin= t of flashing light in the sky with a frequency of about 30 seconds. For a= little under half its orbital period the flash may be visible from Earth a= t dawn and dusk and would certainly be easy to see at night. For the story, which has Lojgugde hidden from Earth, it would need to be cl= oaked. Perhaps there can be a very large black panel (maybe a square 50km = along each side) between the station and Earth that obscures it from view. = The panel would likewise screen Earth from Lojgugde, so that the bright gl= obe spinning past Lojgugde's window segments doesn't cause dizziness or int= errupt the occupants' night phases. To complete the illusion Earthside, the panel could be comprised of 5-10 me= tre square-shaped dishes, which can independently light up, forming an enor= mous TV screen of sorts. A camera pointing out into space just ahead of Lo= jgugde's orbital path feeds to the screen, with a slight delay adjustment, = such that from Earth all that appears to be seen when looking in the direct= ion of Lojgugde are the usual stars. Keeping the panel in place would be problematic - at its speed and height f= rom Earth it should share the same centre of gravity as Lojgugde, and would= try to fly off into an elliptical path. It would also seriously attenuate= signals between Earth and Lojgugde. It would need a constant power supply= too. All of these problems are perhaps solved by Lojgugde pointing some multi-me= gawatt (or even multi-gigawatt?) lasers at it. The lasers supply energy to= power the light elements, provide a repulsive force to the panel (in effec= t allowing the station and panel to act as one mass in orbital calculations= ), and are modulated to carry Earthbound comms signals. The Earth-facing d= ishes of the panel double up as satellite-dish style transceivers, and anot= her set of modulated lasers from the back of the panel pass incoming datast= reams back to Lojgugde. How does this monumental feat of engineering seem, is it feasible enough? = I mean, if we have O'Neill cylinders then the cloaking panel should be rela= tively trivial, yes? kozmikreis --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.