From lojban+bncCNTPpI2KGxDcx9LhBBoEGTMRhw@googlegroups.com Wed Jul 07 08:57:39 2010 Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OWX0A-0003Nc-Tf; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 08:57:39 -0700 Received: by yxd39 with SMTP id 39sf5336336yxd.16 for ; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 08:57:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:received:received:from:to:subject:date:user-agent :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; bh=nT9/XcDFwuiiTn0zKFS54rDH0AIfCR/c5uOpbq0cwhk=; b=uvgMa3YHDlBApOMs3RH+O9ScuuCMJ4Mfq29aEUz9r4HhAQpGKOnrPQPIxnC4u1twkU b6VzLBJqmcTs+2fTg8YEsmf/X7VdXNmjkCsmrndpfDEp4WNhBGxGZCbbFhmM21grOuNS Ut4WJzao48Z+WMW6Yl1OxDK8SxDiW0GJncXqE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references :in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; b=Y3blJPUOdVJp/g3c2g6Ssajv4izR6uHzmVwKYqIhE4aOE4SIyc2XXEBgvirmEwStbS p4pWsrTM5fw6I66kiNCD2I7wmf3E6HyhZ7duHj59zdJ/zuwnI2RPf/LQ4nvBA65tBRy+ 1fujmMj6+ctXhmNVe2sv21/tbkstXv4dLXYQM= Received: by 10.90.79.11 with SMTP id c11mr674278agb.37.1278518236239; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 08:57:16 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.47.7 with SMTP id l7ls521471ibf.1.p; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 08:57:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.79.17 with SMTP id n17mr725122ibk.19.1278518234796; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 08:57:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.79.17 with SMTP id n17mr725121ibk.19.1278518234778; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 08:57:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.123]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id e25si4210740ibk.3.2010.07.07.08.57.14; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 08:57:14 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.123 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) client-ip=75.180.132.123; X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=oaRwIdHE/lqzbPM8zlr4LBbVcQVPGQazIjzXT8wWb9I= c=1 sm=0 a=G5ooKK4a2a8A:10 a=ADBQPqJMlbwA:10 a=ORa4HqFjfvEA:10 a=Q9fys5e9bTEA:10 a=ITGCJgwGTuG7H/gKGaarIQ==:17 a=NCbO3sj_PByv-ZYGdfIA:9 a=Y5vME5dkBvb7nznjf_eClCbfjAMA:4 a=PUjeQqilurYA:10 a=sh6PArqQtYdngLzxv5aEQJAsMbE=:19 a=ITGCJgwGTuG7H/gKGaarIQ==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 71.71.198.100 Received: from [71.71.198.100] ([71.71.198.100:60075] helo=chausie) by cdptpa-oedge02.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.39 r()) with ESMTP id 51/C9-10953-9D3A43C4; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 15:57:14 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id B13073F04 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 11:57:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] relative clause in a name Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 11:57:09 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) References: <201006271620.06248.phma@phma.optus.nu> <201007062254.33578.phma@phma.optus.nu> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <201007071157.10932.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Original-Sender: phma@phma.optus.nu X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.123 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) smtp.mail=phma@phma.optus.nu Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline On Wednesday 07 July 2010 07:02:25 tijlan wrote: > The word is adjective (rather than a prepositional phrase or a relative > clause), so we could simply have "la ma'azva .karabax." with respect to the > new cmevla rule. Otherwise (i.e. traditionally), I would say "la poi > ma'azva .karabax." (I have at times used this form to translate English > names like "President Obama" or "Queen Elizabeth" as well). The new cmevla "rule" is a proposal which has not been accepted and would break lots of existing text. It is not a rule. And there is no such thing as an adjective in Lojban. > Side note: > In some languages including English, the "nagornyj" is transcribed rather > than translated. I wouldn't do that in Lojban. The landlocked region now > has [ti'e] at least two other official names in Armenian and Azerbaijani > with their own, unrelated words for the "nagornyj" part, after the Soviet > Union era. I think the meaning-based "ma'azva" would live more up to > Lojban's neutrality standard. I am aware of the Armenian and Azeri names, in both of which the first word has something to do with "mountain", which is why I said "ma'azva" while transliterating "Karabakh" (which means "Black Garden"). Pierre -- li ze te'a ci vu'u ci bi'e te'a mu du li ci su'i ze te'a mu bi'e vu'u ci -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.