From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBDRpNPhBBoEdgP8cA@googlegroups.com Wed Jul 07 12:15:47 2010 Received: from mail-fx0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OWa5u-0002K9-K3; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 12:15:46 -0700 Received: by fxm18 with SMTP id 18sf4679327fxm.16 for ; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 12:15:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=hP+0VR/Egzmg2AZXBNouCYEdQj8V911WVgAYRgck06s=; b=y4HFaIEB4IIsAdLEXW9R8l5jO7eT/583ggIhnExaO2IhJt2L8UeUoBRO2lV5QU4/IM b8m6pN1Saju1armJz3gDwS/rTsJWb2HP4fMFdvujPKjX+9jBQ0Ky8IUhaZU7dU0cT8LK T65YrqA61A5MaMma4dpnKX+ShrVDs3PLGoNlk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=hNsvUzkmlpCuJH2pC2LVtDLo9tAhj5ArC8uyRrKabIzEpR27NlHNExnXiCGpzUt+no 60XlnYuuv8Z+Z6+sCr0sOnfns8MYiue2jfyBbTwPYMfCNfcTyvG5t4uyKdvTTS4V6z03 +7Ua5w5IVGq30Rd4RYWIXxFYB+FC5LigfpXpY= Received: by 10.223.92.156 with SMTP id r28mr525017fam.24.1278530130010; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 12:15:30 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.6.8 with SMTP id 8ls617242bkx.3.p; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 12:15:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.47.162 with SMTP id n34mr203178bkf.4.1278530128771; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 12:15:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.47.162 with SMTP id n34mr203177bkf.4.1278530128734; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 12:15:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-fx0-f43.google.com (mail-fx0-f43.google.com [209.85.161.43]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id n18si4022159bkw.6.2010.07.07.12.15.27; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 12:15:27 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.43 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.43; Received: by fxm18 with SMTP id 18so6751081fxm.16 for ; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 12:15:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.120.16 with SMTP id b16mr6260636far.65.1278530127395; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 12:15:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.165.206 with HTTP; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 12:15:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 15:15:26 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] beyond good and evil From: Luke Bergen To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.43 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00504502c62213fc21048ad0fea6 --00504502c62213fc21048ad0fea6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good call xorxes. I didn't think of {bancu}; nor the order of ze'o issue.... nor the jo'u instead of .e thing. All good tips. Also, nice catch komfo. It's another bad habit of mine that I think of the relationship itself instead of the x1 when I use lo (e.g. I think of "speed= " as {lo sutra} when really {lo sutra} is "the fast one" or {lo melbi} as being "beauty" instead of "the beautiful one", etc...). In the end I think I like {bancu lo kamvrude jo'u lo kampalci} best. Thanks for the help guys. On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 2:58 PM, komfo,amonan wrote: > 2010/7/7 Jorge Llamb=EDas > > On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 3:16 PM, Luke Bergen wrote= : >> > The closest thing that I could come up with was {ze'o co'e lo vrude .e >> lo >> > palci}. How should lojban handle vagueness of this kind? Anybody hav= e >> any >> > suggestions/critiques? >> >> bancu lo vrude jo'u lo palci >> >> If you must use "re'o" then: >> >> co'e ze'o lo vrude jo'u lo palci >> >> because "beyond good and evil" is where whatever co'e is happens. Your >> version says that something about good and evil happens beyond some >> unspecified point. >> >> I'd use jo'u rather than .e because, as I understand it, it means >> beyond the dichotomy of good and evil, not being beyond good, and also >> being beyond evil. > > > The definitions imply that the x1 of vrude/palci is a person (or any bein= g > to whom a moral sense can be attributed). So maybe {bancu lo si'o vrude k= ei > jo'u si'o palci}? > > mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --00504502c62213fc21048ad0fea6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good call xorxes. =A0I didn't think of {bancu}; nor the order of ze'= ;o issue.... nor the jo'u instead of .e thing. =A0All good tips.
Also, nice catch komfo. =A0It's another bad habit of mine = that I think of the relationship itself instead of the x1 when I use lo (e.= g. I think of "speed" as {lo sutra} when really {lo sutra} is &qu= ot;the fast one" or {lo melbi} as being "beauty" instead of = "the beautiful one", etc...).

In the end I think I like {bancu lo kamvrude jo'u lo kam= palci} best.

Thanks for the help guys.
<= br>
On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 2:58 PM, komfo,amonan = <komfoamonan@= gmail.com> wrote:
2010/7/7 Jorge L= lamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>

On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 3:16 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote: > The closest thing that I could come up with was {ze'o co'e lo = vrude .e lo
> palci}. =A0How should lojban handle vagueness of this kind? =A0Anybody= have any
> suggestions/critiques?

=A0 =A0 =A0bancu lo vrude jo'u lo palci

If you must use "re'o" then:

=A0 =A0 =A0co'e ze'o lo vrude jo'u lo palci

because "beyond good and evil" is where whatever co'e is happ= ens. Your
version says that something about good and evil happens beyond some
unspecified point.

I'd use jo'u rather than .e because, as I understand it, it means beyond the dichotomy of good and evil, not being beyond good, and also
being beyond evil.

The definitions imply that th= e x1 of vrude/palci is a person (or any being to whom a moral sense can be = attributed). So maybe {bancu lo si'o vrude kei jo'u si'o palci}= ?

mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
--00504502c62213fc21048ad0fea6--