From lojban+bncCIPo5fbjAhDmjtfhBBoEjEWHrg@googlegroups.com Thu Jul 08 05:41:26 2010 Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OWqPq-0002MC-Pj; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 05:41:26 -0700 Received: by yxj4 with SMTP id 4sf431623yxj.16 for ; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 05:41:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received :sender:received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from :to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=Fq5qZL6vPTx0fJ7EpsMo4H2eCrQuEfHEa3bllJ3rZng=; b=IgvaMpp7//NRkV0r+i11gldwVdi/DWBbxaRis9SyGA1//TsMLtBIPJFhL8tbZqu953 BQOij5xZa2KkhWNZjlgmgWpLEToVRMV44s1FJ8+cPOvIKA0twtiknaS2gr7o+jBMGsGz a+7vC7EfIu23DAvtur88Eo0rf2ZbHGtCXuLqY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=4bby6bWEVJpAymVAl7vSOE/+gVpVe6rNtAJORNdC9+Zgs2IrAZdbqlDEQoJdbb1DPK Gwr5jMDA93hhsYy+jonwbJOo0dPjOGFwFJiGZXC+2m76v7qQeFJyCfBgY3KDnNOX2N9L wArdjEVK/2YLBHXP9nnmLaO/CeoCfwsF0TDP0= Received: by 10.91.209.16 with SMTP id l16mr870162agq.31.1278592870429; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 05:41:10 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.151.132.9 with SMTP id j9ls144298ybn.0.p; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 05:41:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.73.33 with SMTP id v33mr140260yba.11.1278592868992; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 05:41:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.80.167 with SMTP id t39mr316319bkk.11.1278592648904; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 05:37:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.80.167 with SMTP id t39mr316318bkk.11.1278592648812; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 05:37:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-fx0-f44.google.com (mail-fx0-f44.google.com [209.85.161.44]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id bv13si4415346bkb.4.2010.07.08.05.37.27; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 05:37:27 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of cyril.slobin@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.44 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.44; Received: by mail-fx0-f44.google.com with SMTP id 1so434666fxm.17 for ; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 05:37:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.239.160.196 with SMTP id e4mr143498hbd.77.1278592645546; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 05:37:25 -0700 (PDT) Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.239.163.73 with HTTP; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 05:37:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 16:37:25 +0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] beyond good and evil From: Cyril Slobin To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: cyril.slobin@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of cyril.slobin@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.44 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=cyril.slobin@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 11:15 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > It's another bad habit of mine that I think of the relationship itself instead of the x1 > when I use lo (e.g. I think of "speed" as {lo sutra} when really {lo sutra} is "the fast > one" or {lo melbi} as being "beauty" instead of "the beautiful one", etc...). Everyone does. This is the most common error among Lojban learners, and I believe this is the most important (or, at least, the most reproducible) Whorfian effect discovered so far. And, looking back, we can find essentially the same case in early Esperanto history. I have even wrote a micro-essay on this topic. Unfortunately, it is in Russian. I should translate it to English (or Esperanto, or Lojban), meanwhile the Russian text is here: http://www.e-novosti.info/forumo/viewtopic.php?t=5989 -- http://slobin.pp.ru/ `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, `it means just what I choose it to mean' -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.