From lojban+bncCIycn8S8DhDEsvHhBBoENUe4Jw@googlegroups.com Tue Jul 13 05:17:31 2010 Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OYeQP-0003pj-NB; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 05:17:30 -0700 Received: by qyk30 with SMTP id 30sf284170qyk.16 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 05:17:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=gIOISS/vrxMy/+FeS1lYg/RbfgEwFEC8WvmJ4ERU03o=; b=t0vA1Issj42zxWEWirKGdC1hzNf9m7pUoS+BZJVsuFJdn7yndT236AUzh+xCVdKytl cMYF+Ubx7mIlrxO1VUIwYCGfRmRmGniDHOJceA9BLxr2ENC4cbvbutqrkCUK8mvZfni0 gy6GxndD6vnX1K/b8HIe16tV37BbI9w5V5zPo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=C+lL9gUmQbWRgEko3FL5RYdchOIBjPtaepBI7CtACHe3uLtDSSb2RDWCINcw5ARXys DUlJBMULlGB9rVe+hS4gwCQhykEZnAoSoFIr/zsXe7mCpg+oM3k4wgRQnCf0Um03vJiN dBkGquWpO4GqbyavIe5k+w8Hkx2/87hI4hF84= Received: by 10.224.75.75 with SMTP id x11mr293698qaj.24.1279023428981; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 05:17:08 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.224.100.139 with SMTP id y11ls507491qan.4.p; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 05:17:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.28.139 with SMTP id m11mr1183490qac.20.1279023428106; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 05:17:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.28.139 with SMTP id m11mr1183489qac.20.1279023428078; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 05:17:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f53.google.com (mail-vw0-f53.google.com [209.85.212.53]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id f7si3287945qcq.10.2010.07.13.05.17.06; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 05:17:07 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.53 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.53; Received: by vws15 with SMTP id 15so6369398vws.40 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 05:17:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.26.93 with SMTP id d29mr2994894qac.24.1279023426660; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 05:17:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.214.20 with HTTP; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 05:17:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 08:17:06 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] beyond good and evil From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.53 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 10:16 AM, tijlan wrote: > On 8 July 2010 14:33, Luke Bergen wrote: >> >> I just tried putting it into jboski and it says that the second lo is >> misplaced. =A0I thought {joi} and friends worked like {.e} does, not lik= e {je} >> does. =A0Does {joi} make a tanru of some sort? > > {joi} can be within a tanru, but a tanru is not what {joi} makes. I don't > think the rule that turns two brivlas into a tanru has anything to do wit= h > the rule by which a JOI specifies the kind of connection between grammati= cal > units. The pair of units a JOI is between, is self-evident, given that th= ey > must connect things that are on the same syntactic level (which is also t= he > case for every natlang, so far as I hear): > > =A0(a) lo [broda] joi [brode] > > =A0(b) [lo broda] joi [lo brode] > > The first one cannot possibly be a connection between sumtis; and the sec= ond > one not between brivlas. jboski does not parse these correctly, and that = may > be a bug (I could be wrong on that, though). That is not a bug as far as the CLL is concerened.. see 14.14.4: > 14.4) le nanmu ku joi le ninmu [ku] cu klama le zarci > The man massed-with the woman go-to the market. > The cmavo ``ku'' is the elidable terminator for ``le'', which can almost = always be elided, but not in this case. If the first ``ku'' were elided her= e, > Lojban's parsing rules would see ``le nanmu joi'' and assume that another= tanru component is to follow; since the second ``le'' cannot be part > of a tanru, a parsing error results. No such problem can occur with logic= al connectives, because an ek signals a following sumti and a jek a > following tanru component unambiguously. However, I do agree that the grammar _needn't_ be defined this way, as it is always clear which level is being connected. --gejyspa --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.