From lojban+bncCPGMg4mHHBCKuq_jBBoEdqod5w@googlegroups.com Wed Aug 18 06:16:15 2010 Received: from mail-qw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.216.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OliV2-0005ng-5M; Wed, 18 Aug 2010 06:16:15 -0700 Received: by qwj8 with SMTP id 8sf333269qwj.16 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 2010 06:16:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=5xO6+MTEgh75dsPEUhZXC0ny3m0C9lL+tMRQSmwrnZ4=; b=TVWSnq5zAEl8qr5GiYnlBGcXz6e0s1T44DO0qiP/3XCO7h8GlSUaqL/ZgGX6IW9/Kq /8RjxKC+dNAOqCpogZKoVVbXdTP+MybsVNPZ0MewXzmku1pbESDmqmfSThjBSEpZNjzX l+ZTb5zSQeo0V0wc7Ir7MSiJkSbkq3nNjULBw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=3LXFpPUy+99DuCRwqdM0KwrA56NEU85jPuNXMuaIdeSF1lRZiBzJXC3ZkkW0GLomSV ROQAxe8I3NlPIZmYWCerKuZrxiTUtMhzT1ZQ0c4eDCm+Gd2wIdEHAW0dwQM9CbL+ttGz yf0V4B19LoOR3UEHntdBRehYQx3CthZ7WFmKM= Received: by 10.229.131.129 with SMTP id x1mr263594qcs.3.1282137354349; Wed, 18 Aug 2010 06:15:54 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.227.16 with SMTP id iy16ls286223qcb.2.p; Wed, 18 Aug 2010 06:15:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.222.72 with SMTP id if8mr787591qcb.16.1282137352575; Wed, 18 Aug 2010 06:15:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.222.72 with SMTP id if8mr787590qcb.16.1282137352514; Wed, 18 Aug 2010 06:15:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f170.google.com (mail-qy0-f170.google.com [209.85.216.170]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id x2si140452qcq.11.2010.08.18.06.15.51; Wed, 18 Aug 2010 06:15:51 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of ivo.doko@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.170 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.170; Received: by mail-qy0-f170.google.com with SMTP id 35so1946653qyk.15 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 2010 06:15:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.112.209 with SMTP id x17mr5346558qap.304.1282137350848; Wed, 18 Aug 2010 06:15:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.177.3 with HTTP; Wed, 18 Aug 2010 06:15:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 15:15:50 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Trilling/rolling R From: Ivo Doko To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: ivo.doko@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of ivo.doko@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.170 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=ivo.doko@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 15 August 2010 21:18, Luke Bergen wrote: > (what exactly is the > difference between trilling and rolling?) It's the same thing. Correct linguistic term is alveolar trill (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alveolar_trill), but in English-speaking areas it is also known as rolled r. However, there is a difference between alveolar trill "r" and alveolar flap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alveolar_flap) "=C9=BE". Alveolar trill can be seen as multiple repeated alveolar flaps (carrrrramba), while alveolar flap is even present in some English accents. For example, "attaboy" and "attagirl" are in some English accents pronounced as /=CB=88=C3=A6=C9=BE=C9=99b=C9=94=CB=90=C9=AA/ and /=CB=88=C3=A6=C9=BE=C9=99= g=C9=9C=CB=90=C9=B9l/, respectively, with "tt" being pronounced as alveolar flap. In some accents "better" is /=CB=88b=C9=9B=C9=BE=C9=99/ a= nd "glottis" is /=CB=88gl=C9=91=C9=BE=C9=A8s/. In most Indo-European languages which feature alveolar trill and alveolar flap, they are treated as allophones (e.g. in Serbo-Croatian), while in some (e.g. in Spanish) they're treated as separate phonemes. As for how to pronounce them, I can't really help through e-mail, can I? :P --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.