From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBCS76_jBBoEmPVT_w@googlegroups.com Wed Aug 18 08:09:29 2010 Received: from mail-pv0-f189.google.com ([74.125.83.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OlkGZ-00079W-GT; Wed, 18 Aug 2010 08:09:28 -0700 Received: by pvc7 with SMTP id 7sf67978pvc.16 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 2010 08:09:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=2lCeN3M9nupIBIcet6aKrRUO7uDTIyl5E0jwGqoDVt4=; b=6ssNWKTwt08rGzjt0TxDmRhlQFwER+OS8ei86XhxhctiRv/k26asjG90tPbH6EF4kJ KsHJ369sChD38of2fAmO1xH/8YNL0Itb3Afn94mwudbk4CagSy6Axtv7hdSHjldtiQHE K3bK2Shypn31YJbfXKtq5Qv+08uCkRKfCXJvo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=qxmK9Q9upXkqaY0q6TdM7pqHALmucnCO4VPKlgVyiENYrVq04ZNb0ATKsCKOh+ttRs rwW1FcUcEYWrnpKNI/dNj+jVZEg8ZgId+Z2Uti0gKdDWwjzTMtMtzSxWd+RmI9wKhRtP QdW+sWCdxPcu7tc2MCwcwnehsqTfUkgKYkAe4= Received: by 10.142.247.6 with SMTP id u6mr345475wfh.41.1282144146075; Wed, 18 Aug 2010 08:09:06 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.142.248.40 with SMTP id v40ls795990wfh.1.p; Wed, 18 Aug 2010 08:09:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.141.3 with SMTP id o3mr2216931wfd.15.1282144144994; Wed, 18 Aug 2010 08:09:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.141.3 with SMTP id o3mr2216930wfd.15.1282144144960; Wed, 18 Aug 2010 08:09:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pw0-f51.google.com (mail-pw0-f51.google.com [209.85.160.51]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id i10si451157wfa.1.2010.08.18.08.09.03; Wed, 18 Aug 2010 08:09:03 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.51 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.160.51; Received: by mail-pw0-f51.google.com with SMTP id 5so453642pwj.10 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 2010 08:09:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.132.15 with SMTP id f15mr7198383wfd.14.1282144143702; Wed, 18 Aug 2010 08:09:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.63.10 with HTTP; Wed, 18 Aug 2010 08:09:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 11:09:03 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Trilling/rolling R From: Luke Bergen To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.51 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd29cd03c9060048e1a72cb --000e0cd29cd03c9060048e1a72cb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 hmm, I guess that's kind of like what I do. I would describe it as pushing air through my mouth tapping the tip of my tongue against the middle-ish section of the roof of my mouth. The air being pushed through my mouth quickly pushes it back down again and this produces a.... well I think it's what you're talking about. This whole discussion reminds me of the short story "they're made out of meat". The ultimate evidence for the non-existence of an ultimate creator. With radio-waves, infra-red, and a host of other technologies that we've discovered for communicating data with crisp clear accuracy, we're stuck flapping different pieces of meat against each other and forcing air to blow through our eating holes to get information from our brains into the brains of others. .u'i On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 10:48 AM, Ivo Doko wrote: > On 18 August 2010 16:26, Luke Bergen wrote: > > .uacai. ok, I see what you're saying about the flap in 'attaboy'. That > was > > one of the things that concerned me about (what I thought was) my lack of > > skill at making the tap. I was worried that it sounded too much like > > certain uses of 't' like in 'better' or 'd' like in bedding. But I guess > > this isn't really a concern since those ponounciations of 't' and 'b' > would > > definitely be wrong. > > > > Ok, 'r' like that tap type noise I think I can do. > > > > Thanks for your help everyone > > Just to be clear, there are also English accents in which "tt" in > "attaboy" is pronounced as t (voiceless dental plosive) or d (voiced > dental plosive) instead of as alveolar flap. The difference is a bit > difficult to hear but easy to spot in articulation - 't' and 'd' are > made with the tip of your tongue touching your upper teeth or the > place where your upper teeth meet your palate, while alveolar flap is > made without touching your teeth with your tongue at all and instead > producing the sound by the tip of your tongue touching the part of > your palate closer to the place where English r is produced. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --000e0cd29cd03c9060048e1a72cb Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hmm, I guess that's kind of like what I do. =A0I would describe it as p= ushing air through my mouth tapping the tip of my tongue against the middle= -ish section of the roof of my mouth. =A0The air being pushed through my mo= uth quickly pushes it back down again and this produces a.... well I think = it's what you're talking about.

This whole discussion reminds me of the short story "th= ey're made out of meat".

The ultimate evi= dence for the non-existence of an ultimate creator. =A0With radio-waves, in= fra-red, and a host of other technologies that we've discovered for com= municating data with crisp clear accuracy, we're stuck flapping differe= nt pieces of meat against each other and forcing air to blow through our ea= ting holes to get information from our brains into the brains of others. = =A0.u'i

On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 10:48 AM, Ivo Doko <= span dir=3D"ltr"><ivo.doko@gmail.c= om> wrote:
On 18 August 2010 16:26, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
> .uacai. ok, I see what you're saying about the flap in 'attabo= y'.=A0 That was
> one of the things that concerned me about (what I thought was) my lack= of
> skill at making the tap.=A0 I was worried that it sounded too much lik= e
> certain uses of 't' like in 'better' or 'd' li= ke in bedding.=A0 But I guess
> this isn't really a concern since those ponounciations of 't&#= 39; and 'b' would
> definitely be wrong.
>
> Ok, 'r' like that tap type noise I think I can do.
>
> Thanks for your help everyone

Just to be clear, there are also English accents in which "tt&qu= ot; in
"attaboy" is pronounced as t (voiceless dental plosive) or d (voi= ced
dental plosive) instead of as alveolar flap. The difference is a bit
difficult to hear but easy to spot in articulation - 't' and 'd= ' are
made with the tip of your tongue touching your upper teeth or the
place where your upper teeth meet your palate, while alveolar flap is
made without touching your teeth with your tongue at all and instead
producing the sound by the tip of your tongue touching the part of
your palate closer to the place where English r is produced.

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