From lojban+bncCPGMg4mHHBDa7MTjBBoEVCwkgw@googlegroups.com Sun Aug 22 07:38:56 2010 Received: from mail-qw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.216.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OnBgy-0008Js-4j; Sun, 22 Aug 2010 07:38:55 -0700 Received: by qwj8 with SMTP id 8sf2298402qwj.16 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 2010 07:38:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=nvDSF4lxg/Cp9Xn1tM6J6qW18EczA3eS8nIJ+Q+qgeY=; b=qG4LRm41iuCk+7zeZrY0XYwQ4fAskgIyjpUDmV11ezLjYN+9pVW+68+chWXnqByNJ0 OiEEpPUNO+NLbkbNqluGJqU4e/MXfO5dK5Abjo4JSOzoYofGtfY8NsP688BluqH2Bzzx 1zm2kiHiuPwtDcU9w8pu93a1HUs4BAGmjIwDo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=QEQITVN+GAl5iXIfEoc0NB0EhEbiejM2TCLV46FXB08pQAFozdd1UUflDz77bKFaqd 31tM/8gXbpoTyifh46Fc7Rb2I2Ma2aFBYLlg+91ceZFnrNeTwuT80wvGktwbSSWXVLm4 elG0OJeEuijpILyziw7+M9v5H73FihLdIEAkY= Received: by 10.229.131.129 with SMTP id x1mr297395qcs.28.1282487898201; Sun, 22 Aug 2010 07:38:18 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.207.1 with SMTP id fw1ls1775557qcb.1.p; Sun, 22 Aug 2010 07:38:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.247.206 with SMTP id md14mr435461qcb.6.1282487897585; Sun, 22 Aug 2010 07:38:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.247.206 with SMTP id md14mr435460qcb.6.1282487897499; Sun, 22 Aug 2010 07:38:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f45.google.com (mail-vw0-f45.google.com [209.85.212.45]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id mz6si2821470qcb.5.2010.08.22.07.38.16; Sun, 22 Aug 2010 07:38:16 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of ivo.doko@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.45 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.45; Received: by mail-vw0-f45.google.com with SMTP id 19so4599053vws.18 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 2010 07:38:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.61.140 with SMTP id t12mr2450240vch.194.1282487896231; Sun, 22 Aug 2010 07:38:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.195.68 with HTTP; Sun, 22 Aug 2010 07:38:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 16:38:16 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Cool From: Ivo Doko To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: ivo.doko@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of ivo.doko@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.45 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=ivo.doko@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 22 August 2010 16:15, Warrigal wrote: > On the contrary, as long as you're using an appropriate pronunciation > of {r} (/=C9=B9/ is my favorite), pronouncing {grk} without a schwa is > easy, if you know what you're doing. A great majority of people don't know what they're doing though. Most of the people are actually "deaf" to schwa, so to speak, ironically especially those whose native languages feature clusters like these in which the r is treated as a syllabic consonant but actually realised either as R-coloured schwa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-colored_vowel) or as schwa followed by r. Thus many people would truly think that they're saying {grk} when they would actually be saying {gyrk} simply because they don't hear the schwa and instead perceive {yr} simply as syllabic r. Yes, pronouncing this cluster without schwa is "easy if you know what you're doing", which means precisely that it's not easy. Off-topic fact, "Grk" is actually a proper word in Serbo-Croatian, meaning "male Greek person" and is pronounced /=CB=88=C9=A1=C9=99=C9=BEk/. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.