From lojban+bncCIfx8JOUAxCZm-HiBBoESdhHfA@googlegroups.com Tue Aug 03 10:11:35 2010 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OgL1B-0006s8-WA; Tue, 03 Aug 2010 10:11:34 -0700 Received: by wwi18 with SMTP id 18sf1583520wwi.16 for ; Tue, 03 Aug 2010 10:11:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:x-virus-scanned:received:received :message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=N2z7/twy3sSZsvbNGKMZGiPiSJYjLTxGI4B27F5RpMM=; b=K2kRFtwL4xYg9ihyXlabhX+mNANGu26i7dKCClHz2Lg0oEAgYipIQ7pxRVfIxI+0xl jBs+xXfwAhVs0CS6VfefC5BAkRKKLiRf1ClDM3sAFu/dEydUwKR89yVEyyOdpPWJRa7i MVg0yjBw6ni+pU7Pcoyt4wL7R0pTGXw6Vqb0A= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-virus-scanned:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=NxsQ7VEIyPBqBS+YTg+VcecGXmb5113dsnU3O0PcSenx48rPZj7KeS1BtaqF2btHJE 40v7h/68KcQvckrH/3L7ANfsbLtAGfG7AoCAwvv23K+dlndvqjbLPpnjYgU6OKk0altd nywis/rtunKPtwNBPQgNgJB3gQRVHE1T5BRSw= Received: by 10.216.145.226 with SMTP id p76mr1498115wej.3.1280855449145; Tue, 03 Aug 2010 10:10:49 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.14.14.140 with SMTP id d12ls16803eed.1.p; Tue, 03 Aug 2010 10:10:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.22.14 with SMTP id s14mr760682ees.19.1280855447757; Tue, 03 Aug 2010 10:10:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.22.14 with SMTP id s14mr760681ees.19.1280855447705; Tue, 03 Aug 2010 10:10:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.wouldyoubuythis.net (mail.wybt.net [195.191.196.3]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id w43si7972094eeh.7.2010.08.03.10.10.47; Tue, 03 Aug 2010 10:10:47 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 195.191.196.3 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of timonator@perpetuum-immobile.de) client-ip=195.191.196.3; Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wouldyoubuythis.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DABD48B4C for ; Tue, 3 Aug 2010 19:09:31 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mail.wybt.net Received: from mail.wouldyoubuythis.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.wybt.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r7O9g2wqywhy for ; Tue, 3 Aug 2010 19:09:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.178.94] (HSI-KBW-078-042-025-249.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de [78.42.25.249]) by mail.wouldyoubuythis.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6C26248B18 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 2010 19:09:30 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4C584D76.5010801@perpetuum-immobile.de> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 19:10:14 +0200 From: Timo Paulssen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.1.10) Gecko/20100620 Icedove/3.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] (to all coders) what's missing IMO. References: <4C58391F.7050700@perpetuum-immobile.de> In-Reply-To: <4C58391F.7050700@perpetuum-immobile.de> X-Original-Sender: timonator@perpetuum-immobile.de X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 195.191.196.3 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of timonator@perpetuum-immobile.de) smtp.mail=timonator@perpetuum-immobile.de Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On 08/03/2010 05:43 PM, Timo Paulssen wrote: > I would also be incredibly happy to get either a discussion among > coders started or an entirely new mailing list for lojban > programmers, so that "normal people" don't get bothered by techtalk. Of course it would have been nice to say what exactly I wanted to discuss with the sampla: I'm pretty bummed out by the state of software to analyse lojban sentences. Sure, there's our parsers and they can make nice parse trees and such, but beyond jbofi'e, there's no piece of software/code I know of, that can tell, what sumti goes where and how things relate. Sure, there's my attempt at getting some semantic data from parse trees[1], but it's far less powerful than what would be needed for any non-baby-talk lojban. Another thing that I find we should really be making soon-ish is an object model for lojbanic sentences on a higher level than our grammar files. What I'm thinking of is like the APIs that exist for, say, XML or XHTML. Sure, those are very different from lojban, but it would be splendid, if we could write code on a very high semantic level, pass some "parse hints" (how to handle terminators, for instance, or how to order the sumti) and get a valid lojban sentence out of it and the other way around. This way, we could have software to modify sentences. Examples that come to mind are transformations like these: mi pinxe ki'u lo du'u mi taske <-> mi pinxe i ki'u bo mi taske lo gerku e mi e do cu klama lo ricfoi <-> lo gerku cu klama lo ricfoi i je mi klama lo ricfoi i je do klama lo ricfoi And there could be software that allows a lojbanist to interactively drag around parts of a sentence and when those parts snap back into place the sentence will still be valid (what with terminators and all). This is the stuff I wish we had, but I'm utterly incompetent and I routinely fail to keep up work on a project, even if I get the occasional thumbs up/compliment. Hopefully we can get some collaboration started to implement this stuff, because I feel I can't be the only one who would *love* to play around with such a thing. mu'o mi'e senva si timos [1] http://github.com/lojban/lojbansuggest/blob/master/lojbansuggest/tree.py -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.