From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBD6icvjBBoEVT1-iA@googlegroups.com Mon Aug 23 11:59:26 2010 Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OncEq-0006yd-OO; Mon, 23 Aug 2010 11:59:26 -0700 Received: by qyk12 with SMTP id 12sf2671494qyk.16 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 2010 11:59:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=hzzsPOpH47h9jUwb5mqHzhKRF6stkTGcVTfYVV8R3HE=; b=pTKdl/fLWpglrsfMXKnGCym8RA8iU69XZH+6lhrkpuZanqT/jpuAZ9lJ5kvmMmWx4O obsUQ4lD/D8MoIzYwgHs4Ad4DKnAPFefkhMjKgqSnx9tYUe0iebtYx7RsvHxFd72dTls jItsm8kE0RaLgzCBN8Zl2lEFfqt7Fp5FbdJgY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=1hpK0m9tfttFSLTID4G+yMN9tspFdAWqfyc9zO3PIbMNodYtoolYVKFnyYKcm+LdlO IP08J3xrUK1XH4rUJLZNjHypKUZtBMWai/6yOdp/SpFS2dWEHlDkmaF+i24CBJckDdyI ZJFPrhvrvm9J268T/vAo2eVq8fruNVLfS/PbQ= Received: by 10.229.130.220 with SMTP id u28mr419808qcs.34.1282589946766; Mon, 23 Aug 2010 11:59:06 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.207.84 with SMTP id fx20ls2192661qcb.0.p; Mon, 23 Aug 2010 11:59:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.248.6 with SMTP id me6mr616890qcb.2.1282589945700; Mon, 23 Aug 2010 11:59:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.248.6 with SMTP id me6mr616889qcb.2.1282589945649; Mon, 23 Aug 2010 11:59:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f44.google.com (mail-vw0-f44.google.com [209.85.212.44]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id l26si3930766qck.9.2010.08.23.11.59.04; Mon, 23 Aug 2010 11:59:04 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.44 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.44; Received: by mail-vw0-f44.google.com with SMTP id 10so5903910vws.31 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 2010 11:59:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.168.12 with SMTP id s12mr3493818vcy.100.1282589941899; Mon, 23 Aug 2010 11:59:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.63.10 with HTTP; Mon, 23 Aug 2010 11:59:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20100823041719.GA10565@sdf.lonestar.org> References: <20100823041719.GA10565@sdf.lonestar.org> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 14:59:01 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Cool From: Luke Bergen To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.44 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001485e9a65ce12365048e823d61 --001485e9a65ce12365048e823d61 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 That's a valid point. In general, I prefer lujvo to fu'ivla. I just hate seeing incredibly long words (my one biggest complaint about lojban is that it can often sound incredibly wordy). On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 12:17 AM, Minimiscience wrote: > de'i li 22 pi'e 08 pi'e 2010 la'o fy. Luke Bergen .fy. cusku zoi > skamyxatra. > > I think in general it's a good idea to go with lujvo for things, but one > > rule of thumb that I try to go by is "does this word seem to get copied > from > > language to language? If so, maybe it should be copied to lojban". e.g. > > "hypnotism" comes from the french "hypnotique" which comes from the latin > > "hypnoticus" so I would most likely expect to see this as a fu'ivla. It > > could also arguably be a lujvo, but since people have been copying it > around > > for millenia from language to language. > .skamyxatra > > You do realize that if "This word is derived from an older word" is the > deciding criterion for whether a {fu'ivla} should be made, then literally > almost *every* word in *every* natural language *ever* will be made into a > {fu'ivla}, right? Deriving words from older words is how languages grow, > develop, and eventually split off from other languages. The relatively few > words that are coined on the spot either die off or eventually serve as the > basis for newer words. The more relevant question for {fu'ivla} formation > should be "What percentage of the global population recognizes this word?", > under which very few rank highly. > > mu'omi'e .kamymecraijun. > > -- > jicmu traji zifre fa loi remna lonu senpi > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --001485e9a65ce12365048e823d61 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That's a valid point. =A0In general, I prefer lujvo to fu'ivla. =A0= I just hate seeing incredibly long words (my one biggest complaint about lo= jban is that it can often sound incredibly wordy).

On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 12:17 AM, Minimiscience <minimiscience@gmail.com> wrote:
de'i li 22 pi'e 08 pi'e 2010 la'o fy. Luke Bergen .fy. cusk= u zoi skamyxatra.
> I think in general it's a good idea to go with l= ujvo for things, but one
> rule of thumb that I try to go by is "does this word seem to get = copied from
> language to language? =A0If so, maybe it should be copied to lojban&qu= ot;. =A0e.g.
> "hypnotism" comes from the french "hypnotique" whi= ch comes from the latin
> "hypnoticus" so I would most likely expect to see this as a = fu'ivla. =A0It
> could also arguably be a lujvo, but since people have been copying it = around
> for millenia from language to language.
.skamyxatra

You do realize that if "This word is derived from an older word" = is the
deciding criterion for whether a {fu'ivla} should be made, then literal= ly
almost *every* word in *every* natural language *ever* will be made into a<= br> {fu'ivla}, right? =A0Deriving words from older words is how languages g= row,
develop, and eventually split off from other languages. =A0The relatively f= ew
words that are coined on the spot either die off or eventually serve as the=
basis for newer words. =A0The more relevant question for {fu'ivla} form= ation
should be "What percentage of the global population recognizes this wo= rd?",
under which very few rank highly.

mu'omi'e .kamymecraijun.

--
jicmu traji zifre fa loi remna lonu senpi

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