From lojban+bncCNTPpI2KGxDU3ubjBBoEPkUe8A@googlegroups.com Sat Aug 28 17:52:55 2010 Received: from mail-pv0-f189.google.com ([74.125.83.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OpW8g-0008JG-PY; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 17:52:55 -0700 Received: by pvc7 with SMTP id 7sf397200pvc.16 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 17:52:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:received:received:from:to:subject:date:user-agent :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :content-disposition; bh=eXjyU7oOTxDu9Hk6/Ruto+60+DKuObLc1TA3P02LZTw=; b=dmjB7NvBA0eDohn5MQrNsteDdlIMCz50+d84sHeDDj1AwO3KUtjZ53lP/v4l4xgzaJ sJU3tWgH5IKeZ0RPyOk/fHvI/kNVRBCn3Ncq2sT/aCCjSRozTyoXm26L7OI3WIXqyPrP 4p2utMzn9bTCiraWQLt53fCsjlLO9fBsWOppM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references :in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :content-disposition; b=za/92Pzciv1YlypJzrPhxc5jQTrnMLBi2BLxr1utwwO5eCo+OuLWaROdyBlhpu5Kl3 mr0CzFXLZjx2XYqkUzQf6iCX1VXxf28BXaTrl49DZHp8t3tgM+S07hhIU3/1nGLw8Yho fhn3uRCBrNr3WWFYSS1UTFwrhbdmRS++ELKqM= Received: by 10.115.38.30 with SMTP id q30mr139171waj.22.1283043156798; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 17:52:36 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.115.85.40 with SMTP id n40ls3685684wal.0.p; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 17:52:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.25.17 with SMTP id 17mr519141way.18.1283043155930; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 17:52:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.25.17 with SMTP id 17mr519140way.18.1283043155907; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 17:52:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.123]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id d12si7261803wam.7.2010.08.28.17.52.35; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 17:52:35 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.123 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) client-ip=75.180.132.123; X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=GBv0B28wak1MsSRQKs6THzeQZLo5xx3+TKfhphPLS1Y= c=1 sm=0 a=4tp0hj6PyBoA:10 a=ORa4HqFjfvEA:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=ITGCJgwGTuG7H/gKGaarIQ==:17 a=33y-LIMI23Ap6CR7cscA:9 a=1Ex5pJYliMruoiOtZNBX5k7TeF4A:4 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=ITGCJgwGTuG7H/gKGaarIQ==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 71.71.198.100 Received: from [71.71.198.100] ([71.71.198.100:38657] helo=chausie) by cdptpa-oedge03.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.39 r()) with ESMTP id B9/76-01206-25FA97C4; Sun, 29 Aug 2010 00:52:34 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 354DA3F04 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 2010 20:52:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Articles of Faith Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 20:52:27 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) References: <8CD1502F8EF1631-1880-ED16@webmail-m073.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8CD1502F8EF1631-1880-ED16@webmail-m073.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <201008282052.29269.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Original-Sender: phma@phma.optus.nu X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.123 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) smtp.mail=phma@phma.optus.nu Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Saturday 28 August 2010 16:01:43 Seth wrote: > Articles of faith In Lojban > > 1. mi=92a krici lo du=92u zasti fa la cevni no=92u le cimni patfuge=92u e= le ri "ge'u" needs a space before, else "patfuge'u" is a fu'ivla of unknown meani= ng.=20 Why "la cevni", but "le censa ruxpre"? > bersa no=92u la iezus kristos ge=92u e le censa ruxpre 2. mi=92a krici lo= du=92u lo I'd say "iecu,as.xristos", basing it on the original languages. > prenu cu ba selsfa fi lo ri madzeienai lo la adam nu naltinbe 3. mi=92a k= rici space after "madzei". > lo du=92u lo po=92o la Kristos nunmadzeile=92i cu tadjilo nu ro remna se = ruxnu=92a > lo ri tinbe be lo ro xisterctu ke flalu joi ritli ke=92e 4. mi=92a krici = lo This one's complicated. I'm not sure whether "be saved" refers to the momen= t=20 of salvation, or the state of salvation, or whether it should be=20 translated "ruxsnura/ruxnurbi'o" or "ruxka'o(bi'o)". And "atonement" is a= =20 difficult concept. I thought "zugvi'u", but "zungi" is a feeling. Anyway,= =20 here's my attempt: mi'a krici le du'u le nu la xristos. madzeile'i kei ka'e ruxnu'ari'a ro rem= na=20 ta'i lo nu tinbe lo flalu ja javni pe le xagnuzba > du=92u lo nunkri fi lo nolraitru no=92u laiezus kristos ge=92u ku ce=92o = lo > nunmadxagtik ce=92o lo nunjir tezu=92e lo nu selfaxlo madzei ku ku ce=92o= lo nu "nunmadxagtik" isn't a well-formed word, "lo nunjir" is ungrammatical, and = I=20 don't know what "faxlo" means. > punji lo xance tezu=92e tu=92a lo seldu=92a po=92u lo nu censaruxpre kans= a lu=92u ku > pamoi lo xisterctu ke jicmu joi ritli ke=92e 5. mi=92a krici lo du=92u lo= nu Here's my try: mi'a krici lo du'u xagnuzba ke jicmu ja javni fa pamai lo nu lacri la iecu,= as.=20 xristos. turn. kei .e remai lo nu traga'i .e cimai lo nu jdajinru tezu'e lo= =20 nu vimcu lo madzei kei kei .e vomai lo nu punji lo xance tezu'e lo nu dunda= =20 le censa ruxpre > nanmu ku selmi=92e la cevni cusarcu lo nu ctuca fo lo xisterctu ku e nu c= atni "lo nu nanmu ku" means "an event of being a man", which can't be the recipi= ent=20 of a command. I think you mean "lo nu lo nanmu cu selmi'e". Also "nanmu" is= =20 specifically masculine. Can't a woman be called by God? > lo ri ritli ku lo nu cevdatniterdu=92a e nu punji be lo xance be lo catni= 6. Do you mean "cevdatni terdu'a"? > mi=92a krici lo du=92u lo cabdei xi=92ojdagri cu mintu lo laldodjedi xi= =92ojdagri I think you mean "xi'orjdagri", else "xi'o" falls off. Also "laldo djedi"= =20 ("laldo" is a leftover from Loglan, and means "old"). Shouldn't there be=20 a "ganzu" in there somewhere? > lo za=92i ponse lo mintu selca=92i po=92u lo xisraibortinbe ce lo cevka= =92ice lo "cevka'ice" is impossible. > kurji ce lo ruxctu ce lo ruxkamjundu=92a ce zo=92e 7. mi=92a krici lo du= =92u zasti "ruxyctu", "ruxykamjundu'a" > fa lo ruxstati po=92u lo kabanstati ce lo ka bavju=92o ce lo nu cevdatni I did not recognize "kabanstati" at first, but it is correct, though normal= ly=20 written "ka banstati". > terdu=92a ce lo nu ruxvi=92a ce lo nu ka=92orgauce zo=92e 8. mi=92a krici= lo du=92u la "ruxyvi'a", "ka'orgau ce" > biblos. cu selsku la cevni kei du=92ilo jei ra drani xelfanva .i mi=92a k= rici > ji=92a lo du=92u lo cukta be fi la mormon.cu selsku la cevni 9. mi=92a kr= ici lo > ro ba=92o je ca ca=92o te fa=92irgau be fi lacevni be=92o e lo du=92u ri = ba fa=92irgau > fi lo so=92i banli je vajni lo ra seltru 10. mi=92a krici lo du=92u lai i= sreil cu "isra,el" > jmaji e lo du=92u lo panolanzu cu selxru e lo du=92u la zaiyn no=92u la p= oi remoi I'd say "tsion", that being the transliteration from Hebrew. > djerusalem ge=92u cu baselzba ne=92i lo merko tumla kei e lo du=92u la kr= istos cu "ierucalem" or "ierucalaim" > ba turni bu=92u lo terdikei e lo du=92u lo terdi cu selxru lo za=92i cnin= o je "terdi kei" > panpi 11. mi=92a posxu=92a lo krali be fa lo nu jdase=92u be la cevni kuc= a=92i lo krali ki'a? Okay, it's an experimental gismu. > mi=92a selmarde gi=92e curmi lo nu lo ro prenu ku smiselkrali lo nu jdase= =92ulo "jdase'u lo" > ri selcu=92a ri bu=92u lo py selcu=92a 12. mi=92a krici lo du=92u ma=92a = dejni lo nu > ma=92a tinbe ku loturni e lo flalu 13. mi=92a krici lo du=92u vrude fa lo= nu > stace ce lo nuselylacka=92e ce lo nu cinvu=92e ce lo nu xendo ce lo nu ga= snu be > lo nu xamgu .imi=92a minde lo la pal nu stidi .i va=92i mi=92a krici lo r= o xamgu I'd say "la paulos", since it's a Latin name. > gi=92e pacna ri .imi=92a pu renvi lo so=92i raktu gi=92e ba renvi lo ro a= =92o mi=92a > raktu .i mi=92a siskutu=92a lo ro vrude ce ro melbi ce ro vrude gubykai --=20 La sal en el mar es m=E1s que en la sangre. Le sel dans la mer est plus que dans le sang. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.