From lojban+bncCMHEmaCOBhDTvvLjBBoEcgSQpw@googlegroups.com Mon Aug 30 23:21:24 2010 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OqKDg-0002A5-3j; Mon, 30 Aug 2010 23:21:24 -0700 Received: by wyb35 with SMTP id 35sf1993869wyb.16 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 2010 23:21:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=csEMhmxPNxMdaZdj7+Mc+9um96hcQpKDI0j++yYLwyI=; b=eh5mSfjzbRfo7h3QE5cLsPT2PP+EaIxJphVb6+2hsVzITOVeuFl2mn2/RI9vdLuX+n aDiB/qa5B4Xo6EdTf6wLCvWUkYO6Th4E2fTwiyPbzHpH38Gz+iyT1mjqIc4jFypdiVH/ j048n57jv0qE0NAnHnmMRq+t5vy7biE5DQkVY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=JjoQahsQFsO9J/VhMniwxXx9oZr2AYf+HrttJ+h29mreHRK50+n1mcPH4oML9Y1lrI VMc93d1+ynVN6BGmU4UCYyHlxW01H0UQiqLiFtOMyomS0E1TBIBDINtOT6PtdlzglgJ5 sO4drvPctNtgPmyFW7ZcfYNCdiROW956PWFE8= Received: by 10.216.144.38 with SMTP id m38mr1053277wej.29.1283235667302; Mon, 30 Aug 2010 23:21:07 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.227.82.133 with SMTP id b5ls1661452wbl.3.p; Mon, 30 Aug 2010 23:21:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.158.15 with SMTP id d15mr216727wbx.8.1283235665688; Mon, 30 Aug 2010 23:21:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.158.15 with SMTP id d15mr216726wbx.8.1283235665645; Mon, 30 Aug 2010 23:21:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wy0-f179.google.com (mail-wy0-f179.google.com [74.125.82.179]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id x33si3137311wbs.1.2010.08.30.23.21.04; Mon, 30 Aug 2010 23:21:04 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.179 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.179; Received: by wyb32 with SMTP id 32so7697328wyb.10 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 2010 23:21:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.147.211 with SMTP id m19mr5527493wbv.200.1283235664426; Mon, 30 Aug 2010 23:21:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.93.65 with HTTP; Mon, 30 Aug 2010 23:21:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <8CD1502F8EF1631-1880-ED16@webmail-m073.sysops.aol.com> <18102c9e-f548-49e4-8fb5-06d1117c46dc@h17g2000pri.googlegroups.com> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 00:21:04 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Religious document translation. From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.179 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6498586f1022f048f189594 --0016e6498586f1022f048f189594 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 (Same reply, reposted in English, for those who are too lazy to bother reading the original Lojban or at the least using jboskito translate it for them.) On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 10:22 PM, Lindar wrote: > > > .i mi zanfri lonu traji sampu se cusku lu lo tirxe cu broda .i go'i > lonu > > claxu zo cu > > > > -- > > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > > > .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu > > As grand as your argument is, I'm sure, I have no idea what you are > saying because none of that is valid Lojban. You seem to be saying > something to the effect of "I am enjoying being an extremely simple > expression, expressed by "A *{tirxe} broda's. (Something) broda's an > event of being free of "cu".". Now, unfortunately, this doesn't > actually make any sense, and I'm a bit insulted. > What I wrote was valid. Not being valid is not the same as not making sense. I was missing {li'u}. What I wanted to say was "I'd love to a more simple way to say {lo tirxu cu broda} without using {cu}". > > So, back to my original point, you should never have to use {cu}. If > you find that you do not know how to construct a sentence without > using {cu}, then you need to not use it and look up how to phrase > something without it. This is a tried-and-true method of learning > Lojban -properly- and understanding exactly how it works. If you - > know- all of your terminators, then I have little/no problem with its > use, but it still looks lazy/ignorant/archaic (from the barbaric > yonder days of CLL being the only way to learn Lojban) to say {.i lo > broda cu brode} instead of {.i lo broda ku brode}. > So, to OP who has trouble with Lojban, please do try to avoid the use > of {cu} as it's the lazy way out, which is not good written form for a > religious document. > > -Lindar > I don't understand your reason for preferring {ku} over {cu}. I don't understand why using {cu} is being lazy. {ku} is an elidable terminator for a reason. I disagree that {ku} is better than {cu} in {lo broda (ku) cu brode}. -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0016e6498586f1022f048f189594 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
(Same reply, reposted in English, for those who = are too lazy to bother reading the original Lojban or at the least using jboski to translate it for them.= )

On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 10:22 PM, Lindar <lindarthebard@yahoo.com> = wrote:
> > .i mi zanfri lonu traji sampu se cusku lu lo ti= rxe cu broda .i go'i lonu
> claxu zo cu
>
> --
> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu

As grand as your argument is, I'm sure, I have no idea what you a= re
saying because none of that is valid Lojban. You seem to be saying
something to the effect of "I am enjoying being an extremely simple expression, expressed by "A *{tirxe} broda's. (Something) broda= 9;s an
event of being free of "cu".". Now, unfortunately, this does= n't
actually make any sense, and I'm a bit insulted.
<= br>What I wrote was valid. Not being valid is not the same as not making se= nse.

I was missing {li'u}. What I wanted to say was "I'= d love to a more simple way to say {lo tirxu cu broda} without using {cu}&q= uot;.

So, back to my original point, you should never have to use {cu}. If
you find that you do not know how to construct a sentence without
using {cu}, then you need to not use it and look up how to phrase
something without it. This is a tried-and-true method of learning
Lojban -properly- and understanding exactly how it works. If you -
know- all of your terminators, then I have little/no problem with its
use, but it still looks lazy/ignorant/archaic (from the barbaric
yonder days of CLL being the only way to learn Lojban) to say {.i lo
broda cu brode} instead of {.i lo broda ku brode}.
So, to OP who has trouble with Lojban, please do try to avoid the use
of {cu} as it's the lazy way out, which is not good written form for a<= br> religious document.

-Lindar

I don't understand your reason for p= referring {ku} over {cu}.

I don't understand why using {cu} is b= eing lazy.

{ku} is an elidable terminator for a reason.

I disagree that {ku} is better than {cu} in {lo broda (ku) cu brode}.

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e= 'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu

--
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For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
--0016e6498586f1022f048f189594--