From lojban+bncCOib25n_BhD7kvbjBBoEyS_ysA@googlegroups.com Tue Aug 31 16:00:42 2010 Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OqZoY-0004Yr-5d; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 16:00:42 -0700 Received: by gwb11 with SMTP id 11sf3312015gwb.16 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 16:00:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received :received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=63Z1vPAtLZh5k1Ey1LWK6pb7VPHhoDYrEa5AepwpMBQ=; b=jh2wol5zxTkHogDJbTASC3EvewKvylG0sxRxCZWGInsniKlFKo6B5v8jdMRRrVhv5o Rh990R5CyJDYK5X1ah3rr5uCzZGxnjK4lbaCoczSLrK33bqMlnxFN+4JTgaEapT/T0az hXUGQzrfhhN03GNYgLlqALEfahrtMCw6rRnFg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=kLQX7w62ioZM/yBPaHXWmZlorEp83PtnuVtYiacdZKpQ7fsdCtZcdsl1/hAnTVGYKH hEpc5o9jD9+6yre7DlWxZ3cPgLnYCrnQm3emoRA9z+bRPfoGXfzkvbpYonJhkS3QoZS0 4HpJZBNsrVeF4NaVHurvR95GRoj/oASF7K3Oc= Received: by 10.91.196.10 with SMTP id y10mr956072agp.37.1283295611071; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 16:00:11 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.150.68.29 with SMTP id q29ls2958007yba.4.p; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 16:00:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.12.3 with SMTP id 3mr2250551ybl.41.1283295610545; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 16:00:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.222.9 with SMTP id ie9mr529073qcb.18.1283252182163; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 03:56:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.222.9 with SMTP id ie9mr529072qcb.18.1283252182119; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 03:56:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f179.google.com (mail-qy0-f179.google.com [209.85.216.179]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id x2si5082748qcq.3.2010.08.31.03.56.21; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 03:56:21 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.179 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.179; Received: by qyk9 with SMTP id 9so6503301qyk.3 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 03:56:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.114.81 with SMTP id d17mr3786077qaq.380.1283252180004; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 03:56:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.96.83 with HTTP; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 03:56:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 13:56:19 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: [lojban] Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: ma krinu lonu lo jbopre na tavla fo la.lojban. ne'i levi snustu | Why aren't we speaking in Lojban in here? From: Alex Rozenshteyn To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Cc: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: rpglover64@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.179 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rpglover64@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163623ad4e58af27048f1c6ec2 --00163623ad4e58af27048f1c6ec2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 ka'e xamgu fa le nu ctufau fo la lojban bau jbobau ni'o mi pu troci .i malglico u'u ni'o zoi .glico. It would be nice if there were some lesson plan building up basic lojban competency from scratch written (almost) entirely in lojban. http://lodockikumazvati.org/ is one such resource, but it's unfortunately the only one I have found. I would love to see something that starts "ti la spat. .i la spat gerku ..." Also, some people have recently started using lang-8 and blogging in lojban. A metalinguistic discussion cheat-sheet might also be nice, because even if I could say "the dog ran in circles around Sam's house while Julie played piano" I might not be recall all the grammatical and metalinguistic terms required to ask for an explanation. P.S. It would probably have taken me over an hour to write the above in lojban, and it might have been incomprehensible due to mistakes. .glico. On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 10:53 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 1:04 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > >> Firstly, I know that Lojban is not the first language of anyone in these >> groups. I know that very few of us have good grasp of the language. It is >> also apparent that all of us know English, seeing as how that's the language >> we are primarily using to communicate with each other here. >> >> I know there *used* to be a mailing list specifically for speaking in >> Lojban. I have no idea whether it still exists or not. I do know that at >> least at one time I was subscribed to it, and during that time, possibly >> including up to the present, the was little to no activity on there. >> >> There are the IRC rooms as well, which are also for Lojbanic discussions. >> Every time I am (infrequently) on IRC, I see either no active discussions, >> or I see active discussions about Lojban being held in English. >> >> I very occasionally see discussions being held in Lojban in a group >> thread, but these threads almost always die out rather quickly, with my >> guess to the cause being the lack of interest in reading something that >> needs to be translated before it can be understood. I admit to having been >> guilty of this myself. >> >> I very highly doubt anyone will disagree that the only way to effectively >> learn a language is to USE it. The more the better. In high school, over ten >> years ago, I took 2 years of Latin. I learned quite a bit, and at one point >> I was even able to write whole essays in it. However, I never used it >> outside of Latin class, and so today, I can remember that there are ten(?) >> forms of nouns, and that's about it. >> >> I do not profess to be an expert in Lojban. I do believe I'm pretty good >> with the grammar, but my grasp of the actual vocabulary is very poor. This >> lack is specifically the reason I created the Smart.fm lessons, with help >> from assorted people, notably Oren and RLP. >> >> My point is, we should be using this language as much as possible. We all >> do, after all, profess a desire to be proficient in it, do we not? To be >> able to speak in Lojban as well as we speak in our native tongues? >> >> There are numerous tools to aid us in using the language, until we are >> that proficient. When I first joined this community, I used jboskieverytime I encountered anything said in these groups in Lojban. I had to. I >> couldn't possibly have understood what was being said otherwise, without a >> horrendous amount of effort spent looking up *every* *single* *word*. Now >> there's this wonderful thing someone pointed out just a few days ago called >> GoldenDict. I tried it, it's really useful. Now when I encounter a word in >> Lojban I don't know, all I have to do is move my mouse over the word and >> press a button, and this window pops up telling me what it means. Since I >> can parse grammatical Lojban on my own, the only time I use jboski now is >> when I'm making sure that what I *write* is grammatical. >> >> Now, obviously, I'm guilty of the very thing I'm ranting about right now >> with this message. My reasons for this are: I'm not currently proficient at >> Lojban, this is a very long rant, and I highly doubt anyone would bother >> reading this if it were in Lojban. >> >> If you actually read this entire thing, you have my gratitude. If you wish >> to respond, I would be very, very happy if you did so in Lojban. And if, in >> future, you see something written in Lojban, here in these groups or >> elsewhere, do us both a favour, and make your response be in the same >> language. >> >> -- >> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> >> .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu >> >> > .i levi se casnu cu se srana ledu'u mi krici ledu'u lonu le casnu be lo > ba'e lojbo verskina cu tavla fo lo glibau cu zdile betri > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- Alex R -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --00163623ad4e58af27048f1c6ec2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
ka'e xamgu fa le nu ctufau fo la lojban bau jbobau
= ni'o
mi pu troci .i malglico u'u
ni'o
zoi .glico.
<= br>It would be nice if there were some lesson plan building up basic lojban= competency from scratch written (almost) entirely in lojban.=A0 http://lodockikumazvati.org/ is one such= resource, but it's unfortunately the only one I have found.=A0 I would= love to see something that starts "ti la spat. .i la spat gerku ...&q= uot;

Also, some people have recently started using lang-8 and blogging in lo= jban.
A metalinguistic discussion cheat-sheet might also be nice, becaus= e even if I could say "the dog ran in circles around Sam's house w= hile Julie played piano" I might not be recall all the grammatical and= metalinguistic terms required to ask for an explanation.

P.S. It would probably have taken me over an hour to write the above in= lojban, and it might have been incomprehensible due to mistakes.

.g= lico.

On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 10:53 AM, J= onathan Jones <ey= eonus@gmail.com> wrote:
<= div class=3D"h5">
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 1:04 AM= , Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
Firstly, I know that Lojban is not the first language of anyone in these gr= oups. I know that very few of us have good grasp of the language. It is als= o apparent that all of us know English, seeing as how that's the langua= ge we are primarily using to communicate with each other here.

I know there *used* to be a mailing list specifically for speaking in L= ojban. I have no idea whether it still exists or not. I do know that at lea= st at one time I was subscribed to it, and during that time, possibly inclu= ding up to the present, the was little to no activity on there.

There are the IRC rooms as well, which are also for Lojbanic discussion= s. Every time I am (infrequently) on IRC, I see either no active discussion= s, or I see active discussions about Lojban being held in English.

I very occasionally see discussions being held in Lojban in a group thread,= but these threads almost always die out rather quickly, with my guess to t= he cause being the lack of interest in reading something that needs to be t= ranslated before it can be understood. I admit to having been guilty of thi= s myself.

I very highly doubt anyone will disagree that the only way to effective= ly learn a language is to USE it. The more the better. In high school, over= ten years ago, I took 2 years of Latin. I learned quite a bit, and at one = point I was even able to write whole essays in it. However, I never used it= outside of Latin class, and so today, I can remember that there are ten(?)= forms of nouns, and that's about it.

I do not profess to be an expert in Lojban. I do believe I'm pretty= good with the grammar, but my grasp of the actual vocabulary is very poor.= This lack is specifically the reason I created the Smart.fm lessons, with = help from assorted people, notably Oren and RLP.

My point is, we should be using this language as much as possible. We a= ll do, after all, profess a desire to be proficient in it, do we not? To be= able to speak in Lojban as well as we speak in our native tongues?

There are numerous tools to aid us in using the language, until we are = that proficient. When I first joined this community, I used jboski everytime I encounte= red anything said in these groups in Lojban. I had to. I couldn't possi= bly have understood what was being said otherwise, without a horrendous amo= unt of effort spent looking up *every* *single* *word*. Now there's thi= s wonderful thing someone pointed out just a few days ago called GoldenDict= . I tried it, it's really useful. Now when I encounter a word in Lojban= I don't know, all I have to do is move my mouse over the word and pres= s a button, and this window pops up telling me what it means. Since I can p= arse grammatical Lojban on my own, the only time I use jboski now is when I= 'm making sure that what I *write* is grammatical.

Now, obviously, I'm guilty of the very thing I'm ranting about = right now with this message. My reasons for this are: I'm not currently= proficient at Lojban, this is a very long rant, and I highly doubt anyone = would bother reading this if it were in Lojban.

If you actually read this entire thing, you have my gratitude. If you w= ish to respond, I would be very, very happy if you did so in Lojban. And if= , in future, you see something written in Lojban, here in these groups or e= lsewhere, do us both a favour, and make your response be in the same langua= ge.

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko klama le= bende pe denpa bu


.i levi se casnu cu se srana ledu= 'u mi krici ledu'u lonu le casnu be lo ba'e lojbo verskina cu t= avla fo lo glibau cu zdile betri


--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu

--
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To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
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For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.



--
=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Alex R

--
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