From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRCAhOfiBBoEI1PqGg@googlegroups.com Wed Aug 04 12:40:14 2010 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Ogjoj-0006w1-0B; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 12:40:13 -0700 Received: by wyb42 with SMTP id 42sf34884wyb.16 for ; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 12:39:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ffVPlXR+km9q2LJLMgFTzAFslsq7ru7Xxpr8WVzMqbs=; b=1ukdyjjaprv1iMbjyQNjLHolz4hgjkhGPz8M4lwp2usNWIqyt7/x4ONW05kEjK5nLT Z60rriptC2//YUtdn2MHbwRzdHx8TM1rniX/sgogKdziolaWIubBygwb90TS3eBhWUsq jhzH7Kxlqc+EBy88dqXOXxtSlj0jY7xU1BS4k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=w5VfyaDzUX8Pi+aFML438sW/84X1A9gLED4xuBvXTzVg0dG1dhn9g9jzIc0/d2h4mq ZxZUiPu1ZP1D0yuAxcPknRUtCvOu9d1+mcL2QU809O8huFvhUFKr2emXal3QhPkQVfwJ nsWsSMPC6tkNhGVnhETTwAADVhvV8oavBnSi4= Received: by 10.216.144.194 with SMTP id n44mr1968367wej.4.1280950784443; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 12:39:44 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.227.156.141 with SMTP id x13ls511015wbw.2.p; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 12:39:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.148.11 with SMTP id n11mr403405wbv.6.1280950780964; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 12:39:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.148.11 with SMTP id n11mr403404wbv.6.1280950780942; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 12:39:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ww0-f48.google.com (mail-ww0-f48.google.com [74.125.82.48]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id u3si3040043wbb.7.2010.08.04.12.39.39; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 12:39:39 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.48 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.48; Received: by wwb39 with SMTP id 39so3010761wwb.17 for ; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 12:39:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.138.6 with SMTP id y6mr7795196wbt.162.1280950779236; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 12:39:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.145.130 with HTTP; Wed, 4 Aug 2010 12:39:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <5c502663-6c46-47d8-9808-cd093da084b7@g19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 16:39:39 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Translation Help From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.48 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 4:08 PM, Lindar wrote: > Despite all of the semantic confusion, it seems we have further > confusion. > > Literally 'eternity' is "time-eternal" {temcimni}, so it doesn't > really make sense to say "a time-ish forever-thing is not measured in > time.", because that's like saying, "A red house was not painted that > way." or something. I would go with "vitno". >My best guess anyway follows: > > Eternity is not measured by time. > .i le temcimni ku na nikei lo temci > 'The time-eternal is not an amount (of something) measured in a time- > duration.' "ni kei" is ungrammatical. You need a full bridi inside a NU ... KEI. It's also probably not a good idea to make it grammatical, because it would require lots of currently elidable KEIs to suddenly become no longer elidable. Maybe something like: lo vitno na klani da lo temci > Time does not dream with moments. > .i le temci ku na senva sepi'o lo mokca > 'The time-duration does not dream using tool 0-dimensional-form.' > > Alternately: > .i le temci ku na kansa lo mokca lo nu senva > 'The time-duration does not accompany a 0-dimensional-form in an event > of dreaming.' There are some indications that the original poster is not a native English speaker, and my guess is that "dream with" was meant to be "dream of/about". For example in Spanish, "con" (=3D"with") is the proposition that goes with "so=F1ar": "so=F1ar con" =3D "dream about". If so, then: lo temci na senva lo mokca But I don't really understand this metaphor at all. In what way is time supposed to dream, be it with or about moments? I can understand what the first sentence conveys, but not this one. Is it supposed to mean that time is not a succession of moments, or what? > The moments are written with eternity. > .i le mokca ku se ciska fo le temcimni > 'The 0-dimensional-form is written with writing tool the time- > eternal.' It would make more sense to me to say that eternity is written with moments rather than the other way around (the moments being the ink rather than the pen), but I don't know. Or maybe the moments are written *on* eternity. > Would most say I've hit the mark? It's just too hard to translate without context, and I'm not even certain it's idiomatic English. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.