From lojban+bncCIa_gZ7XDRDc_OniBBoELd1ESA@googlegroups.com Thu Aug 05 02:03:44 2010 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OgwMV-0004BA-Ke; Thu, 05 Aug 2010 02:03:43 -0700 Received: by gyb13 with SMTP id 13sf14312223gyb.16 for ; Thu, 05 Aug 2010 02:03:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:mime-version :received:received:date:in-reply-to:x-ip:references:user-agent :x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=mQqdz3sQa4L6ipYIJ7mhK/E4O26eSpTk0tJcN93+R1U=; b=wEckC9XYxrYXRIAF8SPw7nt41NVR9HI4ctspNU5O6JJ8hPOT0SdLuYNETU/9rWHyVY GYvDeGXLkj79JLSa09O4aGS78/M/E2sWebLCyHjRDZd58gzh24dUhAZ3fzAzeutRteLV Pd2C3FE//fkgr2EJpmn2xtNrLcrNEHqEbLOyE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:date:in-reply-to:x-ip:references :user-agent:x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=yfrpzP4SsWLZ//y5zri2aEOymH4XWa7+rNDrTIrxQOS9rUas2M49f9udJfZcmhX+A4 WU6+1/S1Wmuqrn6v+YULyvSDuGxYFAtwAKCFkI3p+WP/4Xx53/VSNLrLhjZIGiLpzARc D9+l1GCqhQOJn/vZK9sEDhML8bz5DwW4TlouY= Received: by 10.90.35.18 with SMTP id i18mr1947939agi.57.1280999004253; Thu, 05 Aug 2010 02:03:24 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.91.215.10 with SMTP id s10ls117592agq.5.p; Thu, 05 Aug 2010 02:03:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.90.91.6 with SMTP id o6mr1944460agb.4.1280999003482; Thu, 05 Aug 2010 02:03:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by q22g2000yqm.googlegroups.com with HTTP; Thu, 5 Aug 2010 02:03:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 02:03:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-IP: 85.58.16.178 References: <5c502663-6c46-47d8-9808-cd093da084b7@g19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; es-ES; rv:1.9.2.8) Gecko/20100722 Firefox/3.6.8 (.NET CLR 3.0.30729),gzip(gfe) Message-ID: <560aa019-ff1d-42d3-8afc-0e5e92136e33@q22g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: Translation Help From: ftmassana To: lojban X-Original-Sender: ftmassana@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks everyone, I'm not really an English speaker, and I apologize for my mistakes. The original text is in Spanish, the language I'm writing the book. The text is: "La eternidad no se mide con tiempo. El tiempo no sue=F1a con momentos. Los momentos se escriben con eternidad." For me it is really difficult to translate the connotations of those "con" in English language for my ignorance. When I have time, carefully reread your answers to deeply understand your comments and suggestions. Thank you. On 4 ago, 21:39, Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote: > On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 4:08 PM, Lindar wrote: > > Despite all of the semantic confusion, it seems we have further > > confusion. > > > Literally 'eternity' is "time-eternal" {temcimni}, so it doesn't > > really make sense to say "a time-ish forever-thing is not measured in > > time.", because that's like saying, "A red house was not painted that > > way." or something. > > I would go with "vitno". > > >My best guess anyway follows: > > > Eternity is not measured by time. > > .i le temcimni ku na nikei lo temci > > 'The time-eternal is not an amount (of something) measured in a time- > > duration.' > > "ni kei" is ungrammatical. You need a full bridi inside a NU ... KEI. > It's also probably not a good idea to make it grammatical, because it > would require lots of currently elidable KEIs to suddenly become no > longer elidable. > > Maybe something like: > > =A0 lo vitno na klani da lo temci > > > Time does not dream with moments. > > .i le temci ku na senva sepi'o lo mokca > > 'The time-duration does not dream using tool 0-dimensional-form.' > > > Alternately: > > .i le temci ku na kansa lo mokca lo nu senva > > 'The time-duration does not accompany a 0-dimensional-form in an event > > of dreaming.' > > There are some indications that the original poster is not a native > English speaker, and my guess is that "dream with" was meant to be > "dream of/about". For example in Spanish, "con" (=3D"with") is the > proposition that goes with "so=F1ar": "so=F1ar con" =3D "dream about". If > so, then: > > =A0 =A0lo temci na senva lo mokca > > But I don't really understand this metaphor at all. In what way is > time supposed to dream, be it with or about moments? I can understand > what the first sentence conveys, but not this one. Is it supposed to > mean that time is not a succession of moments, or what? > > > The moments are written with eternity. > > .i le mokca ku se ciska fo le temcimni > > 'The 0-dimensional-form is written with writing tool the time- > > eternal.' > > It would make more sense to me to say that eternity is written with > moments =A0rather than the other way around (the moments being the ink > rather than the pen), but I don't know. Or maybe the moments are > written *on* eternity. > > > Would most say I've hit the mark? > > It's just too hard to translate without context, and I'm not even > certain it's idiomatic English. > > mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.