From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRCLzfDiBBoEXexFpg@googlegroups.com Fri Aug 06 08:13:40 2010 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OhOby-0007xG-MX; Fri, 06 Aug 2010 08:13:40 -0700 Received: by wyb42 with SMTP id 42sf611363wyb.16 for ; Fri, 06 Aug 2010 08:13:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=x5Q1fN8VRfvJIRRS4CLVTQFvVUaHCHr8u0FwLxtZV2A=; b=2Y9xqxj7iY9BPQqzqRdMgeTnv+sZhg6+7cRjhhjhZ9cuaJQotZdajCLY4laUlddFjg tjpWpZmVvYXCCGvmXi2yaL5T6vtdOV3KaEpkaVgmbSGJzWwB5UWhmlAn/Sc6gQE9jmNd ukkdD+tp0NdpV1+/n0Nky68BISd6iGKyc/nXM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=sQCdtLCnEgwIsG6npnnelQAFtSIIMADGCzltVtDBQ3dPuEl8hCYknXA6T+GxpOL+5a 7AOK8rdQ88Yyy3TQcPis+cQcnx+/Aab7fgtbpt1Uu+tZ9fP8gDMJ8PT8gBMUDWm8pua2 S8bher3grkgeFLrbGo8H4jL0BrFTZs4D7eX+Y= Received: by 10.216.144.194 with SMTP id n44mr2620313wej.4.1281107595307; Fri, 06 Aug 2010 08:13:15 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.227.139.159 with SMTP id e31ls1162324wbu.0.p; Fri, 06 Aug 2010 08:13:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.146.203 with SMTP id i11mr532744wbv.22.1281107592694; Fri, 06 Aug 2010 08:13:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.146.203 with SMTP id i11mr532743wbv.22.1281107592670; Fri, 06 Aug 2010 08:13:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ww0-f51.google.com (mail-ww0-f51.google.com [74.125.82.51]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id s70si539587weq.5.2010.08.06.08.13.11; Fri, 06 Aug 2010 08:13:11 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.51 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.51; Received: by wwb17 with SMTP id 17so4902462wwb.32 for ; Fri, 06 Aug 2010 08:13:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.145.145 with SMTP id d17mr10785721wbv.148.1281107591433; Fri, 06 Aug 2010 08:13:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.145.130 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Aug 2010 08:13:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 12:13:11 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Illogical English Sign From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.51 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 10:08 AM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > =A0At the hospital where I work, there is a sign in the bathroom which > reads, in part, "...Note: Those identified not washing your hands > after bathroom use may be approached by your coworkers. =A0You can avoid > this embarrassment!" This makes the logical part of my brain laugh > every time I read it. =A0Translating that into lojban we get ".i ju'i .i > lo na'e lumci be lo xance be do be'o bei ba'o lo nu pilno le lumku'a > cu ba jai se tolzau la'acu'i lo kansa be do bei lo nu gunka =A0 .i do > kakne lo nu rivbi le za'i se burnygau" =A0It seems to me there are > several billion people who don't wash MY hands after using the > bathroom (their using, or my using? =A0It's not clear). =A0I don't really > care if my coworkers approach them, nor am I really sure if my > coworkers would. =A0And how would that embarrass me? Is the sign really illogical, or just (potentially) ambiguous? You can reduce the ambiguity considerably by replacing "those of you" for "those". Can't "those" be understood that way?? How would you interpret "those with something in your hands"? Does "your hands" restrict "those" to "those of you" in this case? So I see how you can get a funny reading, but I don't really find the wording as used illogical. (I do find it unbearably bigbrotherish though. Wouldn't a "please wash your hands after ... " or "remember to wash your hands after ..." suffice?) mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.