From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBDqofHiBBoE3Bngcg@googlegroups.com Fri Aug 06 11:14:36 2010 Received: from mail-qw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.216.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OhRQv-0002GN-0P; Fri, 06 Aug 2010 11:14:35 -0700 Received: by qwj8 with SMTP id 8sf1736322qwj.16 for ; Fri, 06 Aug 2010 11:14:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=+PL1EIiaraxCwixoRpqEFXQW1aNCfJGoxIhRBVNpuU8=; b=EQUwU9i1SHJvXNOIh8Mste/1wAiVXxiq1X9bxCb/mI8o+CyJId60VB1OO64ACBQv// lWF/paCy7FhueGshjLtmfzxlbh1IvWWBv6I4hTxc9TtxXV04qjYycqRtMw/wewDPkn5u hpgKPJQbiulXwh66Vema+lyThHHfgLVnybg5c= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=w4Fjw+rdzaq+dGDK79alrLK4ZsBuPy1Yi7DRZ3k23qkpEkJO5IvCXwOt8CK9PylXpL pdqU00uCTFD34iGT1O7vkrVUOHb2ETxQEc7FZfUgqPezJDMSAoxj8Oat62eAAnGTvHXy gkz0vBCgGerxhZvhcj3SLyzB4plSbMCs3eNf4= Received: by 10.229.127.18 with SMTP id e18mr75261qcs.41.1281118442092; Fri, 06 Aug 2010 11:14:02 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.173.155 with SMTP id p27ls1577226qcz.3.p; Fri, 06 Aug 2010 11:14:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.222.20 with SMTP id ie20mr447038qcb.20.1281118440615; Fri, 06 Aug 2010 11:14:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.222.20 with SMTP id ie20mr447037qcb.20.1281118440563; Fri, 06 Aug 2010 11:14:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f43.google.com (mail-vw0-f43.google.com [209.85.212.43]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id t18si941161qcs.15.2010.08.06.11.13.59; Fri, 06 Aug 2010 11:13:59 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.43 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.43; Received: by mail-vw0-f43.google.com with SMTP id 8so5971909vws.30 for ; Fri, 06 Aug 2010 11:13:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.58.138 with SMTP id g10mr8516118vch.270.1281118437011; Fri, 06 Aug 2010 11:13:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.126.220 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Aug 2010 11:13:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 14:13:56 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Illogical English Sign From: Luke Bergen To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.43 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0023544476035a7420048d2ba1db --0023544476035a7420048d2ba1db Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hmmm, what's the difference between 2 and 3? I was trying to say "I am not able to do the event of forgetting the fact that you've forgotten (something, who knows what)". 2010/8/6 Jorge Llamb=EDas > On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Michael Turniansky > wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 1:41 PM, Luke Bergen > wrote: > >> > >> "I can't forget what you've forgotten". Is the artist saying {mi na > kakne > >> lo nu tolmo'i da poi do tolmo'i ke'a} or {mi na kakne lo nu tolmo'i lo > fatci > >> be fa lo nu do tolmo'i}? > >> > > It HAS to be the first one, in English.. the second is "I can't > > forget THAT you've forgotten." > > There are three cases: > > (1) mi na kakne lo nu tolmo'i lo se tolmo'i be do > "I can't forget what you've forgotten." > > (2) mi na kakne lo nu tolmo'i lo du'u do tolmo'i makau > "I can't forget what you've forgotten." > > (3) mi na kakne lo nu tolmo'i lo du'u do tolmo'i > "I can't forget that you've forgotten." > > The English is ambiguous between (1) and (2), but Luke wrote (3) in > Lojban instead of (2), which goes with "that", not with "what". > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --0023544476035a7420048d2ba1db Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hmmm, what's the difference between 2 and 3? =A0I was trying to say &qu= ot;I am not able to do the event of forgetting the fact that you've for= gotten (something, who knows what)".

2010/8/6 Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>
On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Michael Turniansky
<mturniansky@gmail.com> = wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 1:41 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> "I can't forget what you've f= orgotten". =A0Is the artist saying {mi na kakne
>> lo nu tolmo'i da poi do tolmo'i ke'a} or {mi na kakne = lo nu tolmo'i lo fatci
>> be fa lo nu do tolmo'i}?
>>
> =A0It HAS to be the first one, in English.. the second is "I can&= #39;t
> forget THAT you've forgotten."

There are three cases:

(1) mi na kakne lo nu tolmo'i lo se tolmo'i be do
=A0 =A0 "I can't forget what you've forgott= en."

(2) mi na kakne lo nu tolmo'i lo du'u do tolmo'i makau
=A0 =A0 "I can't forget what you've forgott= en."

(3) mi na kakne lo nu tolmo'i lo du'u do tolmo'i
=A0 =A0 "I can't forget that you've forgotten."

The English is ambiguous between (1) and (2), but Luke wrote (3) in
Lojban instead of (2), which goes with "that", not with "wha= t".

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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