From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRDPpfHiBBoEShWGpQ@googlegroups.com Fri Aug 06 11:22:38 2010 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OhRYk-0002t6-Bf; Fri, 06 Aug 2010 11:22:38 -0700 Received: by wwi18 with SMTP id 18sf2591164wwi.16 for ; Fri, 06 Aug 2010 11:22:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=sldjN21EhG5nn6uI6rhUlhqYntWRahENvlUxJ2F61FQ=; b=0+tUAqAAP121sszdE7o0Dtqg/LQwv6Vk9HHNooqDNZZovXDBwJsWU2mm9vcAAC2xBW l1QauwnodyCebv/4dCGpdISuXi7+YqCiPTOKo5kxGH7iqrZGDF56yufW4GjADj/Pdeys v57pfbPdNruYSCdhxRjCiXZx68g5ZP9ZOXWRg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=LL4PqMR7Jz6kk+rFtObQaiHYa7WYAMntCLuAy7EBN/2AA+XSYJuYTrMKWPVqxQjSmd DCPHe9ru3sqjZ9S2iv0sWk5gd/CcjlU8pI6sfY1jWyx8qYBPoRxKKY+qMWPLK8f9UYks UyM6NCFO2WC35fkCwRamLU3FSaGhNl0Or1ZUA= Received: by 10.216.145.226 with SMTP id p76mr2705537wej.3.1281118927115; Fri, 06 Aug 2010 11:22:07 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.216.237.134 with SMTP id y6ls1506523weq.2.p; Fri, 06 Aug 2010 11:22:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.233.219 with SMTP id p69mr81029weq.1.1281118925905; Fri, 06 Aug 2010 11:22:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.233.219 with SMTP id p69mr81028weq.1.1281118925877; Fri, 06 Aug 2010 11:22:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wy0-f177.google.com (mail-wy0-f177.google.com [74.125.82.177]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id v4si601699weq.1.2010.08.06.11.22.04; Fri, 06 Aug 2010 11:22:04 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.177 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.177; Received: by mail-wy0-f177.google.com with SMTP id 19so4104118wyf.22 for ; Fri, 06 Aug 2010 11:22:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.147.144 with SMTP id l16mr5918704wbv.45.1281118924716; Fri, 06 Aug 2010 11:22:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.145.130 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Aug 2010 11:22:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 15:22:04 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Illogical English Sign From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.177 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > hmmm, what's the difference between 2 and 3? =A0I was trying to say "I am= not > able to do the event of forgetting the fact that you've forgotten > (something, who knows what)". That would be (3), but "I can't forget what you've forgotten" can't mean th= at. If what you've forgotten is that Beijing is the capital of China, then (1) says I can't forget that Beijing is the capital of China, and (2) says that I can't forget that you've forgotten that Beijing is the capital of China. Both are "I can't forget what you've forgotten". mu'o mi'e xorxes > 2010/8/6 Jorge Llamb=EDas >> >> On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Michael Turniansky >> wrote: >> > On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 1:41 PM, Luke Bergen >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> "I can't forget what you've forgotten". =A0Is the artist saying {mi n= a >> >> kakne >> >> lo nu tolmo'i da poi do tolmo'i ke'a} or {mi na kakne lo nu tolmo'i l= o >> >> fatci >> >> be fa lo nu do tolmo'i}? >> >> >> > =A0It HAS to be the first one, in English.. the second is "I can't >> > forget THAT you've forgotten." >> >> There are three cases: >> >> (1) mi na kakne lo nu tolmo'i lo se tolmo'i be do >> =A0 =A0 "I can't forget what you've forgotten." >> >> (2) mi na kakne lo nu tolmo'i lo du'u do tolmo'i makau >> =A0 =A0 "I can't forget what you've forgotten." >> >> (3) mi na kakne lo nu tolmo'i lo du'u do tolmo'i >> =A0 =A0 "I can't forget that you've forgotten." >> >> The English is ambiguous between (1) and (2), but Luke wrote (3) in >> Lojban instead of (2), which goes with "that", not with "what". >> >> mu'o mi'e xorxes >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.