From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRCGl6bkBBoEF09Mqw@googlegroups.com Thu Sep 09 18:36:35 2010 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OtsXK-00078Q-Te; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 18:36:35 -0700 Received: by wwe15 with SMTP id 15sf394402wwe.16 for ; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 18:36:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=7SwO2Tvb7NIZYMijH7KXziypKrxSHesC3i3yXNcwtKY=; b=poBAOuEfIh3Phw6dAkIcSCfV0bQNzCT8jsmfpEJHBnvUkjpXdQBE4iQQl+j23VQHUi FmFZkG1zM6cNtveuvvwiBX7OcvDNZxh98yU77tFUwAxjbf5Ho5tS1R4nUU009P+hS56I 5oySvHqS71tUeB2m93uqCatIHwnw0dJIbmV04= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=WQaD44r5h68KYCUBeTt37jCMpuuuvjPCWbstejh/9RTguDWWbW70lOSx4EmqR/NyJj By4O1BseA9NfRwlISl3Z0pzY3Jp0c4ycxXDHG/08XIoE/ussll7ttqQWCXcAxej4TjZb Ygeyd3Xa1G0bj9mHD4RtQqY4o+76oLy9CYXe0= Received: by 10.216.145.9 with SMTP id o9mr11065wej.0.1284082566467; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 18:36:06 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.227.92.203 with SMTP id s11ls2668057wbm.1.p; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 18:36:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.138.68 with SMTP id z4mr9957wbt.13.1284082565402; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 18:36:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.138.68 with SMTP id z4mr9956wbt.13.1284082565372; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 18:36:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wy0-f182.google.com (mail-wy0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id q13si677048wbs.4.2010.09.09.18.36.04; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 18:36:04 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.182 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.182; Received: by mail-wy0-f182.google.com with SMTP id 33so2830762wyb.27 for ; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 18:36:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.134.18 with SMTP id h18mr225604wbt.94.1284082563293; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 18:36:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.151.203 with HTTP; Thu, 9 Sep 2010 18:36:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20100910011141.GS20652@digitalkingdom.org> References: <20100910011141.GS20652@digitalkingdom.org> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 22:36:03 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Teaching methods, especially WRT terminators, and validation thereof From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.182 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 10:11 PM, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > What you've got, as far as I can tell, is an interesting pedagogical > technique that produces good early results, but is totally untested > as to its results when students try to reach real expertise. And even if the pedagogical technique does prove to be better (which I am not doubting: In fact that's how I learned terminators too, that's how terminators were taught in the original "diagrammed summary" lesson, and that's how they are taught in CLL, despite Lindar's mistaken beliefs about it. It is only LfB that deviated from that method, and maybe people who learned exclusively from LfB ended up confused about terminators, but most people don't limit themselves to one single learning strategy) so even if that's the best way to teach, which it probably is, it does not follow that one should for ever avoid using "cu". It is simply not possible to learn Lojban and not know how to use "cu" correctly. "cu" (which is not really a terminator) is demonstrably more efficient than any terminator when the choice is between "cu" and a terminator. You learn about "ku" in your first lesson, and about "cu" in your second, or fifth, or whatever lesson, but you do have to learn about "cu" before you can read practically any text in Lojban. I don't think people will start using "ku" instead of "cu" just because they learned "ku" before "cu". It just doesn't make sense. mu'o mi'e xorxes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.