From lojban+bncCICntNPQBRD6mafkBBoER92Gvw@googlegroups.com Thu Sep 09 23:15:51 2010 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Otwta-0006yo-FW; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 23:15:50 -0700 Received: by gya1 with SMTP id 1sf1835747gya.16 for ; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 23:15:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:mime-version :received:received:date:in-reply-to:x-ip:references:user-agent :x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=X5cBPp/KghT1DOqerDClWtvYDIsX7fPkemhj4tNihaw=; b=SsYf09r7uwkrfC/w56ys9I+/SiGZwARnNHQabaS/nHN4KJH0dcNbDi21YTFH79M5zc zJBR+I/7W83JYXvpEZTTvhrLgJ3El+SOyddcMbgbdJFOJDbUxNLcsrqP+JRQsrmI0Ru+ Y4S6xw6e8EBE4zE+p6RO9i3KE6VEaDqNeweXE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:date:in-reply-to:x-ip:references :user-agent:x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=19ZNU+4PX/HbcJIFDJZw4oTOPFqXck1TlJ5T9dOqZZRZyhuzcACkEpjlmlizAXI0n/ lJB1/Y8EOBxMZG9y8NW0rZtAi0blWH9VpsneleDsuDiXEbE+5VlbmhpkX2o9EH9HYVca T6Fyi/tJBZdjzsjK0qWHgtfyhO6gMml1V/C3s= Received: by 10.90.3.33 with SMTP id 33mr50089agc.15.1284099322166; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 23:15:22 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.91.21.28 with SMTP id y28ls651768agi.2.p; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 23:15:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.91.53.12 with SMTP id f12mr51285agk.0.1284099321450; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 23:15:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by w15g2000pro.googlegroups.com with HTTP; Thu, 9 Sep 2010 23:15:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 23:15:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-IP: 32.174.241.0 References: <20100910011141.GS20652@digitalkingdom.org> User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-GB; rv:1.9.2.8) Gecko/20100723 Ubuntu/10.04 (lucid) Firefox/3.6.8,gzip(gfe) Message-ID: <8b453452-2848-4a00-bad8-5441c5cfbf81@w15g2000pro.googlegroups.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: Teaching methods, especially WRT terminators, and validation thereof From: Lindar To: lojban X-Original-Sender: lindarthebard@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Not everyone that likes The Wrong Way zo'o is as proficient as .xorxes. I, > for instance, have got the grammar down pretty well, but my vocab. is > atrocious. I don't see anything wrong with the 'teach {ku} first' way, I Awesome. I like that. > just disagree with your view that {cu} is a horribly repulsive thing that > should never be used, even to the extent of using {ku} instead, which could > lead to the possibility of having {ku kei ge'u ku'o lo'o lu'u}, where you I think I've calmed down now about that. I like to joke about when I use it. Honestly, my rule seems to be 35% of the time replacing keiku and 100% of the time for kuku/kukeiku. I tend not to use it unless it's actually necessary to not sound overly verbose. Where I'd have to say {.i lo broda be lo brode ku be'o ku brodi vau} I'd say {.i lo broda be lo brode cu brodi} simply because it can't be reduced to a single terminator. For things like {.i lo nu broda vau kei ku brode vau} I'd just say {.i lo nu broda ku brode}, and I'll terminate various other things (li, noi, etc.) if I feel like being very clear. > could use {cu}. Now, I admit to not having an example bridi using all those > terminators, there may be terminators {cu} doesn't enable elision of I > missed, and some of those I listed may not be able to elid with {cu}. It is > an extreme example to show my point. .i lo nu broda kei ku lo brode ku brodi .i lo nu broda ku lo brode cu brodi ^ required terminator > My view is that /*terminators*/ are horrible repulsive things that should > never be used unless absolutely necessary, but that's probably more a > symptom of myself being both an English speaker and one of those jerks from > Obamaland, and therefore extremely lazy, than from the method I use to learn > {la lojbau}.. Huh... just like soap and talking to the common folk when going to market? =P > .xorxes. is one of the most respected members of this community. I don't > think anyone would say his word is law, and most everyone has at least > privately disagreed with him on occasion, what he says is well thought out, > usually makes a good deal of sense, and is agreeable to the majority if not > the entirety of those who listen to him. Has done is not is doing. > Also, {xorlo}, the biggest contribution to Lojban since events before I > joined. It's named xorlo after the creator of the proposal. I know, and he gets major props for that. If I haven't said it before, I'll say it now. Jorge, you are a valued member of this community. I appreciate your input, regardless of whether or not I agree with it, and I always welcome it. > Have you managed to determine the likely causes for their casual interest > failing to develop into a more serious one? I really wish I could figure this out. I think it's that Lojban just isn't important enough, and many people find that life takes away the free time they thought they had. Sadly, 'fake languages' rank below soul-numbing MMOs and other nonproductive hobbies, which people have little time for between work, friends, and a bitchy significant other. Life is rough, and Lojban seems to be the first thing to get cut when somebody is looking to create more free/spare time. Thank you for your input and perspective on the situation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.