From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBCPoankBBoEkEUd-Q@googlegroups.com Fri Sep 10 08:37:07 2010 Received: from mail-fx0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Ou5eu-0005Ms-L6; Fri, 10 Sep 2010 08:37:06 -0700 Received: by fxm17 with SMTP id 17sf393795fxm.16 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2010 08:36:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=ZtUSooGA3uD3mtmDunsqPWxbC7csjbqritXCUSYQDUk=; b=6vCGncA9y9qIxp5SBiifmb4G5Py63fKkzVTqwwRO8qo2xwdATsLGSSj510ai/1dWKq s8wzest9IUKCWQqulIg25jYiue66bPFieBDvW4TWWpQf5IDZ4xm3DIyf5t8akK8Jw2Ak RHkdA438Jn8YLdwBg1xvX1CREA1xOVDvY9Hv8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=lHIfABGNwhgTrAzUDGAwXOcHiYdNkGsZenrSE7MWKBxfWlFsknkV6XCm24cFcSUace 6nML90MkShBZ+ycrRzzDDj5lBLYj7kX0737RQVQzmB6+V8G43PgCiECwSvKs641OUiHY vL84LPOku1ZZihSWyXoZ/CeJqDOVaSvkaGzwc= Received: by 10.223.14.132 with SMTP id g4mr25052faa.5.1284133007816; Fri, 10 Sep 2010 08:36:47 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.36.74 with SMTP id s10ls3313684bkd.1.p; Fri, 10 Sep 2010 08:36:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.80.4 with SMTP id r4mr36085bkk.2.1284133006629; Fri, 10 Sep 2010 08:36:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.80.4 with SMTP id r4mr36084bkk.2.1284133006601; Fri, 10 Sep 2010 08:36:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-bw0-f47.google.com (mail-bw0-f47.google.com [209.85.214.47]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id n18si1420096bkw.6.2010.09.10.08.36.45; Fri, 10 Sep 2010 08:36:45 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.47 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.47; Received: by mail-bw0-f47.google.com with SMTP id 12so3078663bwz.34 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2010 08:36:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.103.16 with SMTP id i16mr666613bko.98.1284133005398; Fri, 10 Sep 2010 08:36:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.98.71 with HTTP; Fri, 10 Sep 2010 08:36:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20100910011141.GS20652@digitalkingdom.org> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 11:36:45 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Teaching methods, especially WRT terminators, and validation thereof From: Luke Bergen To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.47 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016368e2aeba19244048fe983e0 --0016368e2aeba19244048fe983e0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > As a personal quirk, when I read "lo cipni ku klama" my first instinct > is to check back whether I have missed something. Maybe there was > another gadri "lo lo cipni ku klama"? Or "lo bevri be lo cipni ku > klama"? In other words, my first instict is to suspect that "klama" is > not the selbri yet. So it takes more effort for me to process "lo > cipni ku klama" than "lo cipni cu klama". In before lindar says this is because you learned "wrong" .u'i > I also agree that Bergen's "mi cu klama" should be "mi klama"; the > "cu" is an unwarranted redundancy for a simple pro-sumti; I might have been exaggerating a wee bit. I used to do this when I thought of {cu} as "is/does" but I don't find myself doing it much any more. At worst I find myself sometimes saying things like {lo kabri pe la .susyn. cu jinsa} even though the {cu} really isn't needed there. Though that may be better blamed on my poor use/understanding of "phrases" (I'm still sometimes not sure what the difference between a "relative clause" and a "relative phrase" is.) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0016368e2aeba19244048fe983e0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > As a personal quirk, when I read "lo cipni k= u klama" my first instinct
> is to check back whether I have missed something. Maybe there was
&= gt; another gadri "lo lo cipni ku klama"? Or "lo bevri be lo= cipni ku
> klama"? In other words, my first instict is to suspe= ct that "klama" is
> not the selbri yet. So it takes more effort for me to process "lo=
> cipni ku klama" than "lo cipni cu klama".

In before lindar says this is because you learned "wrong" .u= 'i

<= /span>
> I also agree that Bergen'= ;s "mi cu klama" should be "mi klama"; the
> "cu" is an unwarranted redundancy for a simple pro-sumti;

I might have been=A0exaggerating=A0a wee bit. =A0I used = to do this when I thought of {cu} as "is/does" but I don't fi= nd myself doing it much any more. =A0At worst I find myself sometimes sayin= g things like {lo kabri pe la .susyn. cu jinsa} even though the {cu} really= isn't needed there. =A0Though that may be better blamed on my poor use= /understanding of "phrases" (I'm still sometimes not sure wha= t the difference between a "relative clause" and a "relative= phrase" is.)

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