From lojban+bncCICntNPQBRCt8K3kBBoE0VhSYw@googlegroups.com Sat Sep 11 05:38:29 2010 Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OuPLW-0008O0-KC; Sat, 11 Sep 2010 05:38:29 -0700 Received: by yxs7 with SMTP id 7sf2764463yxs.16 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2010 05:38:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:mime-version :received:received:date:in-reply-to:x-ip:references:user-agent :x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=1SBVasXAIqm6r//r256nhJ9HSGmuOJ8aYTKMeluQ6HU=; b=ygKLCyHL7IQ23TICIWod1PxoABfeFVtSal5qrFZQzLa2hn0UDPZChA2zK84lShkyhC LY8LqjkOlit22ghDLweHh0KTwhzyCUsH8Kwg1503jf7gRh/raD5QwFLo6sCRIx5VpCA9 o4q6NNzWdyQ0aelLPv5UKEA97xSjLkYdRpvGE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:date:in-reply-to:x-ip:references :user-agent:x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=5X7246UWRyOmeChQpbChc4pBXs54AJXcYxTRIgAqwQRLRHlsk8QNPR33ITdxHUjsXp 5DeTnnfw04uz7kRqL5TxNDeBpC29NhfKrIs3w1mbtxZ5VwQTn9Wl3bNpmQF83vCW58x2 p1uUadvFcARpY0WjtUGo+im5yZQfB9/fUB+rU= Received: by 10.101.133.6 with SMTP id k6mr60655ann.8.1284208685612; Sat, 11 Sep 2010 05:38:05 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.101.131.11 with SMTP id i11ls3475918ann.5.p; Sat, 11 Sep 2010 05:38:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.101.175.25 with SMTP id c25mr61668anp.68.1284208684910; Sat, 11 Sep 2010 05:38:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by u5g2000prn.googlegroups.com with HTTP; Sat, 11 Sep 2010 05:38:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 05:38:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-IP: 166.135.208.97 References: <20100910011141.GS20652@digitalkingdom.org> User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-GB; rv:1.9.2.9) Gecko/20100825 Ubuntu/10.04 (lucid) Firefox/3.6.9,gzip(gfe) Message-ID: <7a4fca9e-1da6-488e-b573-97050714db87@u5g2000prn.googlegroups.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: Teaching methods, especially WRT terminators, and validation thereof From: Lindar To: lojban X-Original-Sender: lindarthebard@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I think I've figured it out. It's a dialect, if there ever could be such a thing in Lojban. I've very suddenly realised this and wanted to share the idea. It's not inherently wrong, and there's no inherently better way of speaking. I think it comes down to two rather different but mutually understandable dialects. It seems to me like the difference between Canadian, British, and American English (comparing the standard versions). I think we should emphasise the learning and memorisation of terminators to avoid the annoying dance of having to rephrase everything just to use {cu}, but we should also shortly into the lessons teach {cu} to avoid the dance of having to remember just how many LE's and NU's and BE's and NOI's you've gone through. I'm actually quite pleased by this. Lojban seems much more... legitimate... now that we seem to have emerging dialects. We should name them and celebrate them! britai? juftai? What would be a good word for 'dialect'? What should we call the dialects themselves? I like lindarbau myself. =D Just to expand further upon the differences, I think it's a difference in the way things are internalised. Without thinking, I will end a clause of lo with ku. If I talk about a bird, it's {lo cipni ku}. If I begin a jufra with LE, then I automatically use {ku} until I've hit the main selbri. The only time I have ended up using {cu} is when I'd have to say {kuku}, and half the time I rephrase things if I'd end up having to say {lo nu broda kei ku brode}, usually to falonu or sommat. I think it would be very interesting and beneficial project to document the differences in dialects as I can identify at least two. We could document this as actual linguistic growth in the community (i.e. bonus points cos it makes us look like a "real language", not a scifi geek one), and then have lessons on "how to talk like a...". It's almost like the difference between kansai-ben and kanto-ben (in fact, that's almost a scarily accurate analogy). So... what does everyone think? to ta'osai mi tcetce ckire la .xorxes. le nu zvati la'oi #lojban ki'ecai .xorxes. toi -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.