From lojban+bncCO2N0YfCFhD0ybDkBBoEwT9Prw@googlegroups.com Sat Sep 11 17:55:43 2010 Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Ouaqt-0006uY-Cz; Sat, 11 Sep 2010 17:55:43 -0700 Received: by qyk12 with SMTP id 12sf4325174qyk.16 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2010 17:55:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to :mime-version:subject:date:references:x-mailer:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=NSjXIgFbS7vYEwyU025Qim26UrN/z67DMQAiyriS39w=; b=Dr4TX67czFwRuthuWJOO9ritBnxgsq+okRW3pECAkYAG/Bq19fjsan3xw28RnzAkVP 9PIRDrstAkUVR5R+UYW0wqz9XSKh8XgiTYfRrHTwPv1HQ0s2lhT3CJx91+VACkklYAe1 4YEeXu3WCIXOxIxhhvcBeUWxhzW89jvlMusqY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to :mime-version:subject:date:references:x-mailer:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=rPiF24KRkjQjoTzWLEKydheFbubi2DFDg/nD9EXdEKAcsasbB5c2EpBpJ+EYPzv6bK 9bDuhWe4JftnX7i/ONYlDttV7E4DIZBLef8eFnRF25X/egXW9fOKARdAs2471Hrne+lf ALFWUHkDmSg5nZ2zxzFVu92TmGn++XTEgvB6E= Received: by 10.229.43.201 with SMTP id x9mr133019qce.39.1284252916021; Sat, 11 Sep 2010 17:55:16 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.19.84 with SMTP id z20ls32457qca.2.p; Sat, 11 Sep 2010 17:55:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.237.74 with SMTP id kn10mr178402qcb.1.1284252915439; Sat, 11 Sep 2010 17:55:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.237.74 with SMTP id kn10mr178401qcb.1.1284252915411; Sat, 11 Sep 2010 17:55:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from li60-119.members.linode.com (li60-119.members.linode.com [97.107.130.119]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id x2si2362456qcq.3.2010.09.11.17.55.15; Sat, 11 Sep 2010 17:55:15 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 97.107.130.119 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of kpreid@switchb.org) client-ip=97.107.130.119; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=[IPv6:::1]) by li60-119.members.linode.com with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ouaqh-0007PJ-2p for lojban@googlegroups.com; Sun, 12 Sep 2010 00:55:15 +0000 Message-Id: <640A6FE3-8AD3-44E9-B41E-779C7E03989D@switchb.org> From: Kevin Reid To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: <20100912004044.GK13937@digitalkingdom.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Subject: Re: [lojban] Technical, Help Request: What information *should* a Lojban dictionary system have? Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 20:55:14 -0400 References: <20100911215035.GG13937@digitalkingdom.org> <8B06025C-7DF2-4C4D-8336-07AAF1CC5C65@switchb.org> <20100912004044.GK13937@digitalkingdom.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.936) X-Original-Sender: kpreid@switchb.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 97.107.130.119 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of kpreid@switchb.org) smtp.mail=kpreid@switchb.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes On Sep 11, 2010, at 20:40, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > What if there was detailed information about the places *and* > something like what we now call gloss words? That is, words that > describe the whole relationship? That's a verb and prepositions, which is Bad. > Now, how would that look such that it was stored in a more > machine-understandable way and not as actual strings of English > text? > > It's the giant strings of English text thing that I most want to get > away from; it's caused us nothing but trouble IME. I argue that the English text is necessary, and that the problem that you're seeing is from that we always use the same English text. We already use many/several/a variety of English words separated/ interspersed/divided by spaces to convey the broadness of gismu; we need to do the same with sentence structure to convey the nonverbness of gismu. Another question we should be asking (and I haven't thought about the answer yet) is: what definition format encourages word inventors to think clearly about their definition? The definition sentences that jbovlaste/the gismu list use now feel more like a 'formal definition' than dropping a bunch of English keywords into slots would. (Though of course I haven't tried it. Quick, someone name all the biases I'm exhibiting.) Oh yeah, here's another argument: There are better things we could be doing than rewriting all the jbovlaste definitions. Like rewriting only the cmavo definitions :) -- Kevin Reid -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.