From lojban+bncCK30vq5WEKPNsOQEGgTItqez@googlegroups.com Sat Sep 11 18:02:56 2010 Received: from mail-px0-f189.google.com ([209.85.212.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Ouaxp-0007X9-MO; Sat, 11 Sep 2010 18:02:56 -0700 Received: by pxi13 with SMTP id 13sf334071pxi.16 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2010 18:02:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:date:from:to:subject:message-id :references:mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; bh=mnTpoiehIJb4qLcgxnrRwhE6phMtcNbR4oN833h/bHk=; b=YArO7CuJP81zjQrIxUrgSxejvnWdgtS40JOQXLIBGai7iHu8FFwMvHuoQmVdqQg0Bp 1JNxYXGQcD1xqVBliEumreDyDUPLzgZD8oFhM/dbX3RXt1IN2e4qTfjQHZnhB4K+5nPe 3WdbN1w0vrPe6hRCqE0R6RhW8iFbA08LvnrVI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; b=YmyIeodTC8sKubBeK1vzy4NdZcqw6kN2TYQmMbRb9nIrwvNSMbdpQW0Pl8/g+p/wE8 ZFmFMEDEz4te6r5aNxxJgjT1XNRfH0pQzdnXcykAieaayWIStxja5EN0HjoThJlPO6Br JUpiYEES6lYw/w9myeMpdL/NcsJGVTBKTE7FY= Received: by 10.142.121.40 with SMTP id t40mr82266wfc.5.1284253347410; Sat, 11 Sep 2010 18:02:27 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.142.6.9 with SMTP id 9ls5151813wff.3.p; Sat, 11 Sep 2010 18:02:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.106.6 with SMTP id e6mr596941wfc.3.1284253346773; Sat, 11 Sep 2010 18:02:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.106.6 with SMTP id e6mr596939wfc.3.1284253346734; Sat, 11 Sep 2010 18:02:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org (chain.digitalkingdom.org [64.81.66.169]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id k9si5305269wfa.1.2010.09.11.18.02.26; Sat, 11 Sep 2010 18:02:26 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org designates 64.81.66.169 as permitted sender) client-ip=64.81.66.169; Received: from rlpowell by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Ouaxd-0007Wz-Bh for lojban@googlegroups.com; Sat, 11 Sep 2010 18:02:25 -0700 Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 18:02:25 -0700 From: Robin Lee Powell To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Technical, Help Request: What information *should* a Lojban dictionary system have? Message-ID: <20100912010225.GM13937@digitalkingdom.org> References: <20100911215035.GG13937@digitalkingdom.org> <8B06025C-7DF2-4C4D-8336-07AAF1CC5C65@switchb.org> <20100912004044.GK13937@digitalkingdom.org> <640A6FE3-8AD3-44E9-B41E-779C7E03989D@switchb.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <640A6FE3-8AD3-44E9-B41E-779C7E03989D@switchb.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Original-Sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org designates 64.81.66.169 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 08:55:14PM -0400, Kevin Reid wrote: > On Sep 11, 2010, at 20:40, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > > >Now, how would that look such that it was stored in a more > >machine-understandable way and not as actual strings of English > >text? > > > >It's the giant strings of English text thing that I most want to > >get away from; it's caused us nothing but trouble IME. > > I argue that the English text is necessary, and that the problem > that you're seeing is from that we always use the same English > text. Then you are very confused about the problem I am seeing. I want to be able to generate *at least* a formal dictionary, flashcards, simple definitions, and glossing, from one datasource, easily, with the data source being as simple as possible. Every time we've gone to do something new with this data, we've had to do a giant amount of work to convert the data, and then an even more giant amount of work to hand-fix all the errors thus introduced. It's crappy, and I want it to stop. My talk about making the definitions more Lojbanic was entirely a side comment. > Another question we should be asking (and I haven't thought about > the answer yet) is: what definition format encourages word > inventors to think clearly about their definition? That is an interesting question. > Oh yeah, here's another argument: There are better things we could > be doing than rewriting all the jbovlaste definitions. Like > rewriting only the cmavo definitions :) This is true, but I wasn't talking about right now, I was talking in theory/at some point. I've had to do this sort of conversion work at least 6 seperate times now; I'm very very tired of it. I want to do it once and have done forever. -Robin -- http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.