From lojban+bncCN673cmqFBDW6rPkBBoEtJIivg@googlegroups.com Sun Sep 12 08:44:40 2010 Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OuojK-0001Yd-IW; Sun, 12 Sep 2010 08:44:39 -0700 Received: by gwb11 with SMTP id 11sf3504042gwb.16 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2010 08:44:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:x-vr-score :x-authority-analysis:x-cm-score:message-id:date:from:user-agent :x-accept-language:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=33PKImKAt/hlaQz9kwKPnaVstDqYhXx+8MXqkqMM/7E=; b=R/brpeetwAQtj4yaUOxXea6SrCM7xheUSHHXmpbsiKVDjayoOm1QZBFEvGWazqqyVt QrbbtTtSeozDx8yGTcDhUDqM0bMz9bfnWgbJydFQN0vwECqODl7g2eW+zPOQyd9felFd opDz8aF/hvNm5i5jPIOznRsRSjceXUXU9PqDM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-vr-score:x-authority-analysis:x-cm-score :message-id:date:from:user-agent:x-accept-language:mime-version:to :subject:references:in-reply-to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=3MrwFmz/vvf0zzwjobM3ZwNlJFuphyPFvWqknTxefx1fgvKAOl1M0A8IEWUgb6fTzQ hP8C3tgkyJOAxa08zwU0KQuxEt13BDTH5k+lC3MaV5hKLirxxBF8CjvdusLMH3yzGhGu qGH8bEdCaPkDbuqEOwjPstScNe/vkqcOMub0o= Received: by 10.101.180.39 with SMTP id h39mr84265anp.70.1284306262426; Sun, 12 Sep 2010 08:44:22 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.101.185.34 with SMTP id m34ls3718457anp.7.p; Sun, 12 Sep 2010 08:44:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.43.20 with SMTP id q20mr1667744anq.53.1284306261598; Sun, 12 Sep 2010 08:44:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.43.20 with SMTP id q20mr1667743anq.53.1284306261580; Sun, 12 Sep 2010 08:44:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eastrmmtao107.cox.net (eastrmmtao107.cox.net [68.230.240.59]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 15si4813088ann.10.2010.09.12.08.44.21; Sun, 12 Sep 2010 08:44:21 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 68.230.240.59 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) client-ip=68.230.240.59; Received: from eastrmimpo02.cox.net ([68.1.16.120]) by eastrmmtao107.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20100912154419.HVJT21335.eastrmmtao107.cox.net@eastrmimpo02.cox.net> for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2010 11:44:19 -0400 Received: from [192.168.0.101] ([70.179.118.163]) by eastrmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id 5rkL1f0093Xcbvq02rkLLN; Sun, 12 Sep 2010 11:44:20 -0400 X-VR-Score: -100.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=Cpsp9XuSY13Uni36OgXCsheP7uKp19gQdVzN1WEXNos= c=1 sm=1 a=otahw3brRsEA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=7ls7RdmwX4RvLZNVULbZcg==:17 a=BGcBzxIuTSzFrXozlpgA:9 a=Io97msFy3gdOmF64IOYA:7 a=KDv_KPit07r6l3viCsX_My5PqzIA:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=7ls7RdmwX4RvLZNVULbZcg==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <4C8CF552.4050806@lojban.org> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 11:44:18 -0400 From: Robert LeChevalier User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: [bpfk] Technical, Help Request: What information *should* a Lojban dictionary system have? References: <20100911215035.GG13937@digitalkingdom.org> <4C8C1DAD.1020709@lojban.org> <20100912004321.GL13937@digitalkingdom.org> In-Reply-To: <20100912004321.GL13937@digitalkingdom.org> X-Original-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 68.230.240.59 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) smtp.mail=lojbab@lojban.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Robin Lee Powell wrote: > I'll respond to the rest later, but just to be clear: I have no > particular aversion to that format as such *for a print dictionary*. > My issue is with storing the definitions that way internally to the > database. Then, as I understand what you want, I agree with the other person who said this is an NLP problem. In particular, I think we shouldn't try to reinvent the NLP wheel. There are numerous AI systems out there with predicate based languages, which need and have engines that store and process the definitions of predicates. Most of those could serve as a model, but those like the CYC project, which were designed specifically to enable NLP, would seem especially likely. Whether we can use our non-profit nature and our academic ties to perhaps get CYC or one of the other such projects to let us use (or possible modify) their tools for Lojban is something I don't have the expertise or the connections for. But there are academics in the Lojban community who might be able to help or suggest people to contact (Nick Nicolas being an obvious person to start with since I know he has considered the NLP aspects of Lojban, but I'm sure he is hardly the person in the community who has worked in that arena). I'm not really sure you will ever come up with a way to automatedly turn whatever internal format you use into a publishable print-dictionary without any need for hand-editing, especially since jbovlaste and its ilk aren't trying to serve merely as a Lojban-English dictionary, but as a Lojban-everything dictionary. In any case, designing the database strikes me as a project that needs serious research into how large-dictionary databases are designed. At one point, we sought a grant that would have been used for such research - the only grant (pre-)proposal that we've ever prepared. But that didn't get very far %^). lojbab -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.