From lojban+bncCIGHwM2rDhDguLTkBBoEzafxDA@googlegroups.com Sun Sep 12 11:31:17 2010 Received: from mail-qw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.216.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OurKW-0002Xf-Ny; Sun, 12 Sep 2010 11:31:16 -0700 Received: by qwi4 with SMTP id 4sf4597612qwi.16 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2010 11:31:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received:received-spf:received:received:received:date:from :to:subject:message-id:references:mime-version:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-disposition; bh=R0hl8M95u7LdXVq2+g+SxsNo870dj7sD1rAtqvp33fs=; b=6nSxy9Cg6RgW7wmo22/WZJcPFAFwZRuVmJO6PkV0Q4D5HAu9rYCEHi0MI9WUZMl5u7 1eurURGe+Jel0FDGF0VNrVaNb4FX5GerO8cdnlzU1yfutdst6KaXLRlvxC+69/F/ogLU u4Q1WR3gnWE65fvlFSyBdvXLOc0xRO4x8IMHA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:in-reply-to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; b=lwFKzniJ8PMhGowJBWqzVSzDKPXrh9cb2EtKaBxxRJmcSI2wXWS5W/Q53YVAkWxD4b TkePCcr5/zUYzJnlFWnACt1Vhbfj6InButz8ORx6MGnqmb+7YEbnIdeWk+Ln15O667Ni 8tuK3L20NYwZ20bQaqT9z9WVm6hJJJbTwdWSQ= Received: by 10.224.64.84 with SMTP id d20mr338237qai.15.1284316256389; Sun, 12 Sep 2010 11:30:56 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.224.87.217 with SMTP id x25ls1878910qal.0.p; Sun, 12 Sep 2010 11:30:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.3.12 with SMTP id 12mr220754qal.16.1284316255865; Sun, 12 Sep 2010 11:30:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.131.5 with SMTP id e5mr751758wad.41.1284316021648; Sun, 12 Sep 2010 11:27:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.131.5 with SMTP id e5mr751757wad.41.1284316021624; Sun, 12 Sep 2010 11:27:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pz0-f54.google.com (mail-pz0-f54.google.com [209.85.210.54]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id r11si6381145waj.4.2010.09.12.11.27.01; Sun, 12 Sep 2010 11:27:01 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 209.85.210.54 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of alanpost@sunflowerriver.org) client-ip=209.85.210.54; Received: by pzk7 with SMTP id 7so2139896pzk.13 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2010 11:27:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.173.9 with SMTP id v9mr1791766wfe.79.1284316021337; Sun, 12 Sep 2010 11:27:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sunflowerriver.org (c-68-35-167-179.hsd1.nm.comcast.net [68.35.167.179]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id t18sm7347887wfc.11.2010.09.12.11.26.59 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 12 Sep 2010 11:27:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 12:26:58 -0600 From: Alan Post To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Technical, Help Request: What information *should* a Lojban dictionary system have? Message-ID: <20100912182658.GC43833@alice.local> References: <20100911215035.GG13937@digitalkingdom.org> <8B06025C-7DF2-4C4D-8336-07AAF1CC5C65@switchb.org> <20100912004044.GK13937@digitalkingdom.org> <640A6FE3-8AD3-44E9-B41E-779C7E03989D@switchb.org> <20100912010225.GM13937@digitalkingdom.org> <20100912012219.GA91157@alice.local> <20100912152719.GP13937@digitalkingdom.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20100912152719.GP13937@digitalkingdom.org> X-Original-Sender: alanpost@sunflowerriver.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 209.85.210.54 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of alanpost@sunflowerriver.org) smtp.mail=alanpost@sunflowerriver.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 08:27:20AM -0700, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 07:22:19PM -0600, Alan Post wrote: > > I've realized working on these programs that each one of them uses > > a different copy of the dictionary. That strikes me, > > architecturally, as a problem. I'd really like these programs to > > be drawing from the same data source: the dictionary does change, > > and even if we imagine the community dictionary never changing, > > *I'm* not currently happy with it and want to make changes to my > > local copy. > > > > I have longer term plans to add to the corpus of Lojban-using > > programs, and very much support defining a data format that > > supports the use cases we put it to. > > Yes, *exactly*. So the question is, what would such a thing look > like? > I did not, last night, have anything firm to contribute to the conversation, so I outlined my problem without having anything solid to propose. I don't have a firm idea yet of exactly what is being proposed, what problem it is trying to solve, and what problem it isn't trying to solve--I don't have enough context to really follow the e-mail discussion and integrate ideas as I've seen them. I've created a wiki page that I hope captures the essence of everything that has been discussed so far: http://lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Dictionary I would be helped by formalizing all of these ideas into actionable proposals, and I think the best way to do this is to summarize discussion into formal, structured proposals on the wiki. The page above is my start at doing that. My contribution after sleeping on it is to ask: Our experience with dictionaries all come from languages without formal grammars. We have a formal grammar. Is the way we're thinking about a dictionary limited by our experience of languages without formal grammars? Can we do something combining definitions and grammar that can't be done in any other language? I don't have an answer yet, I've added it to the page above and hope other people will replace questions with proposals on that page as we discuss them here. -Alan -- ko djuno fi le do sevzi -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.