From lojban+bncCICntNPQBRDT37bkBBoEMzGubQ@googlegroups.com Sun Sep 12 22:00:32 2010 Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Ov19L-0002oz-Sm; Sun, 12 Sep 2010 22:00:32 -0700 Received: by yxs7 with SMTP id 7sf3763209yxs.16 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2010 22:00:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:mime-version :received:received:date:in-reply-to:x-ip:references:user-agent :x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=nqf4oWQzw+D3AteiMKVSLKPU70BaXWeQS5Nem3uYKZo=; b=Kbl5+F0aKqknIdXJXScg1Ey3NHC0dEiPNM46NYq3NmXXufULbWIz+JJWjjw6kpJg5U d2V9o3nKYT9ZqpjA/FUZIetrhdQ2p11nvrb2N8Occ1olEe/7n/TaVrvKUbdrFkD2o7TJ nHv/AwCL0RMDkwWVNLB3eIGTX6DaDIKy90mGI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:date:in-reply-to:x-ip:references :user-agent:x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=TcjSiu3RLAUbRCcRo6PCH392ftYreiQVGO2hyLQJ6PnJnAiGXS6a7J4W2nfG7BesNw F1K5RLkFs8kCJ8k3na9OjyRTkxecBaQVUjjK61xtp6jlNcQAeZYz4XOIfH3DJkIJGjMY jcdfX78mocSrOCQQyrcXaDJLpIWyqbqdi86OQ= Received: by 10.101.131.33 with SMTP id i33mr102630ann.63.1284354003784; Sun, 12 Sep 2010 22:00:03 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.100.49.22 with SMTP id w22ls3839643anw.2.p; Sun, 12 Sep 2010 22:00:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.101.131.33 with SMTP id i33mr102629ann.63.1284354003325; Sun, 12 Sep 2010 22:00:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by g6g2000pro.googlegroups.com with HTTP; Sun, 12 Sep 2010 22:00:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 22:00:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-IP: 166.190.243.13 References: <729457.38076.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-GB; rv:1.9.2.9) Gecko/20100825 Ubuntu/10.04 (lucid) Firefox/3.6.9,gzip(gfe) Message-ID: Subject: [lojban] Re: other-centric UI From: Lindar To: lojban X-Original-Sender: lindarthebard@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > and it is entirely within your right to disagree. =A0Of course, it is als= o the > right of the jboce'u to say "ok, great, disagree. =A0now go talk your own > special language to yourself because that's not the language that we > made/use and please don't call what you're doing lojban". Fair enough. > The CLL and what sounds like the majority of the jboce'u say that {.ai mi > dansu} means "I intend to dance". =A0I believe that this is both right an= d > wrong. =A0I think that UI cannot be expressed in english in text alone. = =A0I > would translate {.ai mi dansu} as "I'm gonna dance" (spoken with a certai= n > inflection that connotates intention). The plural of anecdote is not evidence. Who says this? > Your statement was something like "what's the point of pacna if .a'o mean= s > the same thing". =A0That to me sounds kind of like "what's the point of d= unli > if we have du". =A0Different connotation, different style, just... differ= ent. dunli and du are two different words. dunli - x1 is equal to x2 in property x3 du - x1 is identical to x2 My statement still stands. {.i .a'o do kanro} is not stating anything more than {.i do kanro}, it's just also stating that you feel hope about it. {.i mi pacna lo nu do kanro} -does- mean more than that. If you intend to do something, then with an attitude of intent, you future do it. {.i mi ba dansu} doesn't actually assert whether or not it actually happens, AFAIK, so {.i .ai mi ba dansu} means specifically what most seem to think {.ai} conveys by itself. It's the difference between "I hope that..." and "Hopefully..." in English > Yeah, "I am dancing and I feel hopeful about it" sounds far more useless > than "I hope to dance". =A0In the case where you want to express that > (whatever it means) you could always just say {mi dansu .ije cinmo lo ka > pacna ku di'u}. Okay, perhaps my fault came from expressing tense in English. Let me put it this way: A sentence that uses UI should mean the exact same thing as a sentence that doesn't use UI, and the only difference should be that the former expresses emotions about things. If you say {.i .a'o mi klama} alters the meaning of the bridi, then -all- UI alter the meaning of the bridi (otherwise there's a gross inconsistency in the language, amirite?), so what does {.i .ui mi klama} mean? --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.